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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
keycocker wrote:

The high income folks in my example would see a drop in sales if they do that, and find themselves eating leftover rice and beans instead.

Or maybe they'd have to throttle back on the new Cadillacs -- maybe new ones every 14 months instead of every 12 months.

(Sorry 'bout that, Mitt.)


The top earners would have to buy a new Cadillac every few hours to compensate for the rest of us. This is why an economy where wealth becomes too concentrated will self-destruct.

It's economics, not class warfare.

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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4240

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Are rich folks going to feel the pain? No, they'll just make a bit more money to compensate for their increased taxes. For rich folks, money is always easy. That's where their talent lies, but as we all know, money doesn't buy everything in life.


You mean like the doctor who studied for 20 years to get his license? Or the small business man who works 16 hours a day? For most, it's not easy to create jobs for others, or take care of others. However if you are talking about GE, I'm with you. However like those connected to Obama, it is easy to make money, as long as they continue to slush the money back to his cause.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, I know that you're not so naive to think that rich folks and big corporations benefit only from the Obama Administrations and the Democrats in Congress. Under the Bush/Cheney Administration just think about Haliburton and all the other companies that benefited from non-competitive contract awards in our foolish wars in the Middle East and elsewhere. And, we can't forget how the oil industries are patently supporting Republican politicians and candidates. If Romney was elected to the presidency, how many days do you think that it would have taken to approve the Keystone XL pipeline?
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
as long as they continue to slush the money back to his cause.

What cause is that?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a free newsletter published by Phoenix Capital Research to promote their definitely NOT-free advisory services comes this:

"T-Minus 30 Days Until The US Begins Defaulting
We've now have just a little over 30 days until US breaches its debt ceiling.
We would have already done so, except Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner borrowed some $200 billion from emergency funds to buy a few weeks' time (announcing that he'd be leaving his post before the actual ceiling was breached). The "solutions" to the debt ceiling discussions range from outright insane ($1 trillion coins) to just staggeringly irresponsible (just get rid of any oversight and grow the debt without restriction).

Let us consider the facts.

The only reason the US is even having these discussions is because we've added $1+ trillion in debt to our balance sheet every year since 2008. The reason we were able to get away with this was because Congress hasn't even implemented a budget since that time. Indeed, the last time a budget was even proposed (by President Obama in that case) it was rejected 97-0.

Let's say a US family spent all of its savings and income and so began using credit cards to fund its purchases. Then, instead of implementing reforms and a budget, these folks decide to abandon any kind of tracking of their expenses and start spending even more. Eventually this family would begin to stop paying its bills. What would you tell these folks if their proposed solution to this situation was to stop opening their mail?

At the core of this entire situation is a total lack of financial discipline. Indeed, at this point, the only thing the political class in the developed world seems to pay attention to is the bond markets: only when their bonds collapse and interest rates spike is there any sense of urgency to do anything (with massive debt loads, any increase in interest rates means hundreds of billions of dollars in more interest expenses).

On that note, the US 30-year Treasury appears to just have taken out its trendline: [technical analysis plot indicating alarming drop (does that crap really mean anything?)]

Bear in mind, the US Federal Reserve has been the primary buyer of US debt. So if the US bond market begins to collapse at a time when the Fed is already buying this much, there isn't a whole lot the Fed can do to fix the situation (other than just buy more... which inevitably leads to a debt implosion). This situation has the potential to get very ugly. Remember the impact the failed debt ceiling talks had on the markets in July 2011? [Big drop]

At that time, the only thing that pulled the market back from the edge was the Fed's announcement of QE 2. But the Fed has already just announced both QE 3 and QE 4. So this option wont be around to fix the fallout if the US breaches its debt ceiling again now. [Besides, not only is QE4 not working well, but as you know the Fed has been caught lying about it, according to the government's own figures proving it to be purely fictitious ... just words to appease the gullible. (You can look it up if you've been living in a cave in Atlantis.)] This is why, smart investors are already taking advantage of the lull in the markets to position themselves accordingly. "

And here, of course, is where their advisory service sales pitch kicks in. HOWEVER, every claim here has been supported by the financial news for months to years, so it has some credibility beyond the family (il)logic example it offers.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3620
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say we default, ISO. Guess what ? Your monthly checks will not be in the mail next month. What are you going to do? Set up a hot chocolate stand at Roosevelt?
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
as long as they continue to slush the money back to his cause.

What cause is that?

I repeat, what cause is that?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stupid is as stupid does.

"We are not a deadbeat nation", President Forrest Gump read from the teleprompters Monday ... followed by a threat to delay Social Security and veteran's benefit payments if he doesn't get his way with yet another higher debt ceiling. Does he not understand the very definition of "deadbeat"?

For the lefties, it means you are not paying your bills/meeting your financial obligations. Who should be paid first ... the fricking Chinese and Indians, or seniors living on SS and the men and women who have kept this nation safe? (Stuff it, uninformed freaks; my SS is peanuts and I pay my own VA disability benefits.)

Spain's banks are collapsing, and their solution is to open new banks funded by the life savings of Spaniards in the collapsing banks. i.e., their own banked money is forcefully morphed into STOCK ... I.O.U.s ... in the new banks. Greece is collapsing. The Euro is on uncooked spaghetti stilts. And now this egotistical, snotty SOB is refusing to even CONSIDER cutting a nickel of spending despite the GOP's repeated offers to let taxes rise a buck for every buck Obama cuts overspending.

Buy gold. Some very successful economics prognosticators promise gold will be far less volatile and far more profitable than stocks or bonds over the next decade or more, beginning soon.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize until yesterday that this trillion-dollar platinum coin suggestion was not an intentional joke; ya just mints 16 of them, hands them to China and India, and declare our debts settled. SURELY not one single person here fails to see that it's nothing more than a metal I.O.U. to replace the present paper ones.

Even more stunning was the revelation that none other than Paul Krugman SUPPORTS the trillion dollar coin. We knew he was a blazing idiot, but not that he thinks everyone else on the planet is even dumber than he.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3620
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISO...in your above post you say to buy GOLD. In another post on the thread "gun nuts" , you say dump GOLD. Which is it? Buy it or Dump it?
I also love your quote which "promises" Gold will do better than stocks or bonds. Please link me to a reputable prognosticator that promises returns. Dude, you are so full of shit it is beyond baffling.
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