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No easy answers we're all farked
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slinky and Bard--I think it is a little more complicated than that. Obama is a no drama guy, and Holder is criticized in the article for not going after malfeasance by banks. I think they are both a little intimidated by the size of the banks and their importance to the economy--as well, as in Holder's case, the fear that many top lawyers have of getting into a prosecution that isn't a slam dunk. I think that they are both too risk averse for dealing with the underlying problems in the economy. They have both stated, on the record on multiple occasions, that they want to move on rather than prosecute certain crimes. Torture and manipulation are both fairly clearly crimes with both criminal and civil penalties. But lawyers hate to lose, and the Justice Department, under both Obama and Bush (and earlier under Clinton) is averse to taking on cases that don't have a 90% plus chance of success.

Obama and Holder have both stated, on the record and in the article, that they are reluctant to punish the banks because of what they fear it may do to the economy. Obama is less beholden to campaign contributors than any recent President--but also more careful. I see no reason to not take them at their word.

But we are all farked, and not for the reasons that Iso thinks.
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 430
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I could be wrong, but I am puzzled as to why more is not being done to prevent another bubble and subsequent collapse. Granted, the banking industry is a huge one, and the bailouts maybe were intended to protect the jobs of the many thousansd of people who are employed there.

Things as they stand now seem no different than they were before, at least from my own experience, which I will state briefly. I applied for a small business loan less than a year ago and was turned down. The very same bank has since pre approved me for a credit card with a credit limit FIVE TIMES the ammount of the size of the loan! Varible interest up to 22%. Screw them. Stop this predatory lending practice.

If the government really wanted to grow the economy they would be offering people like myself loans at a fixed rate at 3.5% or maybe 5%, not 12%, which is what I see.

Iceland put the banksters behind bars and bailed ot the victims. The reverse of the rest of Europs and the U.S.

Obama is too much like Bill Clinton, "the best republican the democrats ever put in the white house". Clinton gave big business everything they wanted.

Charges of him being a Communist and a Socialist are a joke!
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slinky wrote:
Bard, your question is a good one, unfortunately the answer is all too obvious: Obama is in the pocket of the banks. He has given them everything they could possibly ask for.


There are no real political parties remaining. Both parties are so deep in the thrall of their campaign donors that while their rhetoric may differ, the end results are identical.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capetonian--if you think the results are the same you are not watching closely. The last bubble was inflated by the banks, due to a careless de-regulation and the lack of exercise of any of the authority. The SEC did nothing under Chris Cox http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/business/03cox.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

even when they had some authority, or when people blew the whistle on Madoff. Part of the reason is that some were making big money in hedge funds, and they were contributing heavily to both parties.

I fault Obama for being too cautious with the financial industry--but that is very different than in thrall to the industry, as the Republican party has been. I thought Geithner made sense at the beginning, because the collapse had sucked more than air out of the bubble, and restoring confidence in the economy was important. But he should have gone 2 or 3 years ago. The banks would be loaning money if they thought it was safe; they make much of their money off the transaction, not the long term interest. But with interest low, everyone is sitting on money unless they see a gamble.

Wall Street gave heavily to Obama for his first campaign--he had managed to figure out the politics of TARP when Bush could not convince his own party. But they switched sides--big time--because of the rather mild re-regulation that Obama backed. They fought, particularly, the consumer protection law and regulations, but also any limitations on their risk taking http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703699204575016983630045768.html

Nearly all of the anti-regulation fervor of the Republicans over the last 4 years had to do with the regulations implementing bank and health reform laws. They have slowed both to a crawl, and prevented Elizabeth Warren from taking the head of the consumer protection agency.

So the banks took the money that saved them from going under or being nationalized, and then fought any reform that would prevent a recurrence.

It is difficult to know what to do technically about the too big to fail phenomenon, much less the practices outlined by Taibbi, which involve stealing just a little from lots of folks. But it is impossible to actually figure out modest steps that are politically feasible with the Republicans fully in the pocket of the banking industry. So yes, there is a huge difference between the parties on this issue.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4313

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you hadn't noticed Mac, we are in a much bigger bubble than 2007. Property values are screaming upwards. In many cases like apartment buildings, reits, and the stock market, even higher. My daughter bought a house a year+ ago in SF that has gone up 50% in value.

The ultimate punishment for bankers, would have been to let them fail...
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--I don't see a bubble in housing, maybe in the stock market. But I'm also curious as to what you expect Obama to do about it, and with what authority.

Housing prices in much of the country have recovered some, without all the air that was pumped in by stimulated demand (speculation, cheap money, tax incentives), but in most places the current price of housing is less than the actual replacement cost of new construction. That indicates that the market is not overheated. Some highly desirable areas, the core of the Bay area, have substantially higher housing values, but still less than the more remote suburbs. The cost of commuting and the prefernce of millenials for cities have a lot to do with that. Looks more like a changed market to me.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4313

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Housing market is on fire. People are climbing over one another in my town. Multiple above list offers etcetera.

Bernanke should be muzzled. Obama could press the issue. People have nowhere else to put their money. The Market, or Real Estate are the 2 best choices.

With more jobs, this bubble could be sustained. Real manufacturing, oil & gas, pipelines, and energy could help.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From that same page that Pueno posted I found this:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/bank-of-america-too-crooked-to-fail-20120314

While none of this is new news and without pointing fingers (plenty of others on here will be glad to do that for me), this just makes me sick.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4313

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely why I hoped some of the banks would hang in 2009. People who saved would have bought bank assets for 25 cents on the dollar. There were $ trillions on the sidelines. They would have bought the assets and unwound much of the corruption.

I've said this before. I was one of the guys who consevatively waited for the opportunity ahead in 06/08. It never arrived because of govt intervention.

The 1st politician who stands up and says, some of this must be unwound will get my vote. The 1st guy who stresses small and medium size business over the oligarchs will get my vote.
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 430
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. stevenard,

You are absolutely spot on. Banks are the problem. What we have here is an indutry that has existed for a thousand years at least. Banks create money from thin air. Why should we put up with this? What do we need them for?They destroy economies and peoples lives with their never ending cycles of boom and bust.

Get rid of banks! Who needs them.

Imagine if our government were to print money and lend it at zero interest to everyone!

Do you think the economy might improve?

Don't hold your breath waitng for a politician to stand up and speak out against this. They will just kill him, or her.

I think Abe Lincoln tried to do this, with a rather unfortunate outcome.

Banks definately deserve to hang. They are a bunch of blood sucking vampires.

I hate banks. They are the single greatest threat to our freedom.
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