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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
As usual, Pueno's focus on the source and not the FACTS.

Techno, the info comes from Fox, which has a well-established agenda to denigrate Obama. Almost everything Fox says has a spin or bias to accentuate whatever bad happens on Obama's watch and subvert anything good he does. Moreover, they love to spin unrelated bad stuff to make it appear he's responsible when in fact he had nothing to do with it.

An example of this (though not from Fox) was when Michele Bachmann tried to spin a swine flu outbreak as related to the Obama administration. Her "proof" was that a similar swine flu outbreak appeared during the Carter administration (which was factually wrong).

Not surprisingly, the world laughed at her idiocy.


techno900 wrote:
All funding for this program comes from tax payers, through the universal access fees and company profits, generated from tax payers using cell phones. Pueno, you and I are paying for this program, like it or not (assuming you have a cell phone).

Yes, and I accept that a few pennies of my bill are used to support a social program. It's MY CHOICE to use cellphone service and thus pay that fee.

That is not the same as paying income taxes, which are required of working, income-earning people.


techno900 wrote:

If you are against the abuse, acknowledge it and suggest a solution.

I am against abuse -- as I've said elsewhere in this thread -- and so is Obama, who has mounted a campaign to solve this problem.

And yet, Fox, that has this need to piss all over Obama, points to the abuse problem, which is not Obama's doing, while at the same time ignoring the corrective actions he has initiated.

How "fair and balanced" is that?

In my opinion, a worse abuse is the House republicans who've wasted public money and diverted needed legislation as they've voted for the 40th time to repeal the ACA. That's pure idiocy.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Turdy wrote:

Your talking about Ben Gazarra, he died years ago, get your shit together dumb ass.

You really are laughable. I'm making fun of you by convolving Benghazzi into some guy named Ben Ghazzi.

Do you mean you didn't know that? Really?

Sheeeesh!
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6248
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
Mr. Turdy wrote:

Your talking about Ben Gazarra, he died years ago, get your shit together dumb ass.

You really are laughable. I'm making fun of you by convolving Benghazzi into some guy named Ben Ghazzi.

Do you mean you didn't know that? Really?

Sheeeesh!
.

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Busted!
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Turdy wrote:

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Busted!

So, now you can scream "Obamaphones, Obamaphones!!" instead of "Ben Ghazzi, Ben Ghazzi!!"

I'm sure that's intellectual progress for you.

p.s. Speaking of intellectual... you said, "Your talking about..."

I hope you realize that you should have said, "You're talking about..."

Of course, you've demonstrated many times that accuracy and precision, particularly with little things like facts, are not important.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 14276
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joew--I repeat, the NSP program, whatever its merits or faults, doesn't amount to a hill of beans in a pile of wasteful government programs--enacted by Congress. If you want to make an argument, define what your concern is a little bit so people can understand you. (Maybe annotate?)

The tragedy of hyper-partisan politics and talk radio talking points is that they miss both the large issues that really matter, and the ability to reach some type of agreement on shared concerns. The big three items in the Federal budget, all approximately the same size, are the military, social security (technically not in the budget, but a large Federal expenditure) and Medicare. All about $700 billion. There is certainly waste in the military budget--think weapons programs and lobbyists in Virginia, and reform needed in both Social Security and Medicare to make them sustainable. That doesn't mean that privatizing them will ever be politically acceptable, particularly given the results of de-regulation of the banking and investment sectors. I have seen no efforts by any mainstream Republican to work across the aisle with the Obama administration to do so--despite Obama's efforts.

Instead we get the Tea Party posturing on, among other things, the Agriculture bill. Huge amounts of waste here, disruptive to market forces and sensible and sustainable agriculture. What does the Tea Party do? Eliminate a big chunk of food stamps. I teach kids who only eat because of food stamps, and the right has used this as a code word to hammer Obama on the economy and the poor (and particularly those of color) who are "freeloading" with an "entitlement" mentality. Who gets entitled in the Agriculture bill? The payout for crop insurance:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The worst drought in 50 years could leave taxpayers with a record bill of nearly $16 billion in crop insurance costs because of poor yields.

The staggering cost of the program has drawn renewed attention, as the Obama administration and Congressional Republicans wrangle over ways to cut the deficit. Last month, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said that reducing farm subsidies was one way that the administration could cut government spending. But Congress has resisted.


The savings from cutting food stamps? Four or five billion a year. Zero chance of passage. Are you saying, with any consistency, that we need to hone our mostly Republican farmers from their sense of entitlement, because a much smaller number of people are taking 4 times the subsidy?

Reform of any existing program, whether NSP or crop insurance, faces an uphill battle in Washington D. C. All of those programs have supporters, and the political divide is clear--Republicans fight for subsidies for their supporters, Democrats fight for subsidies for their supporters. The change with the Tea Party is the lack of understanding and competence at making deals, and the incredible meanness in blaming the poor for being poor. Competent legislators could identify specific changes and reforms that would reduce costs and have beneficial economic impacts. But neither party is willing to do so at present time. It is no wonder that Congressional approval is at 15% http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

I think historians will look back at the practical effects of the Tea Party movement with the same scorn that they now see the Know Nothings. Unfocused populist rage without competence in implementation is nothing--and that is what they have accomplished.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3674

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to offer balance on the Lifeline phone issue, I found this on the FCC web site, but I can't find anything since this post that there has been any more success with the effort to clean up the program.

One with half a brain can't help but wonder why the government can't find a halfwit computer programmer to write a program for a database that identifies duplicates.

Since it "doesn't amount to a hill of beans" as mac says, I wonder why the FCC even bothered to address the problem?

Quote:
Smart Government Fixes for Lifeline
by: Sharon Gillett, Chief, Wireline Competition Bureau
February 7, 2012

Sharon Gillett

These past few months have been especially proud ones for me at the Federal Communications Commission for one very simple reason: I have had the privilege of being part of a team that put the principles of smart government to work. Yesterday, the Commission released a bipartisan Order comprehensively reforming the Lifeline program, the culmination of months of effort to clean-up and modernize this vital program.

Lifeline is a program that helps low-income Americans afford phone service by providing them with a monthly discount on their phone bills, averaging $9.25, paid for by our universal service fund. The program has been around since 1985, and over that time, the percentage of low-income families with phones has increased from 80% to nearly 92%. But the program’s problems have also increased, especially after the Commission in 2008 made it easier for pre-paid wireless providers to participate.

The pre-paid services proved very popular, in part because the companies priced their plans so the Lifeline subsidy covered the whole bill, allowing them to advertise “free” phones. Unfortunately, Lifeline’s rules were built for the kitchen phone, not the cell phone. As a result, some consumers got multiple subsidized phones – something that didn’t happen in the hard-wired wall phone days. Some companies were enrolling consumers who weren’t eligible. Some companies were collecting a $30 bounty every time they signed someone up..

The Commission started the process of reforming the Lifeline program with the release of the National Broadband Plan in early 2010. Shortly thereafter, we asked the Federal-State Joint Board on Universal Service to examine the Lifeline program and offer recommendations for reform, which it did. Last year, the FCC proposed rules that built on the Joint Board’s recommendations. But we didn’t wait for a comprehensive reform to take concrete steps. Last June, we issued an Order to start cleaning up one of the most glaring problems: duplicate subscriptions. Working with industry, the Lifeline program administrator scrubbed some 3.6 million subscriber records in 12 states, and by the end of the year, eliminated 270,000 duplicate subscriptions, saving $33 million. This process will expand to additional states in the months ahead.

Continuing this important work, last Tuesday the Commission adopted an Order approving comprehensive reform, with unanimous support for the overwhelming majority of the item, and today we are releasing that Order. The reforms adopted by the Commission include building a database that will end duplicate subscriptions forever. A second database will determine eligibility on-line, which will ensure only those who are truly eligible can enroll in the program. We killed the wasteful Link Up subsidy. And there’s more; all told, reforms will save up to $2 billion over three years. We’re going to use some of that savings -- $25 million – to look at how Lifeline can better help low-income families in an era when high-speed Internet has become essential.

I’m proud that the FCC acted so comprehensively – and so boldly, with input from so many diverse interests -- to fix this program. We’ve preserved a vital part of the safety net: affordable access to a phone to find a job, track down a child, or call 9-1-1. We’ve kept program costs in line. And we’ve looked ahead, beginning to orient the program to the broadband future. In my book, that’s what smart government is all about.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19660

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
"doesn't amount to a hill of beans" as mac said

1. It rewards leeches.
2. It buys votes with public funds, rather than earning them with merit.
3. It's my GD money, not the government's or Carlos Slim's.
4. This irrefutably unconstitutional unearned welfare program spends $2.2 Billion in federal income taxes of hundreds of thousands of households.

That's a lot of beans even for people with no morals.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
"doesn't amount to a hill of beans"

The whole thing is about a contrived excuse to heap more hate on Obama, so the real cost, big or small, carried by taxpayers or subscribers, is totally irrelevant. All this bickering is a distraction.

The loudmouthed rabid righties can't bring themselves to acknowledge or admit that someone in the FCC began corrective action early in Obama's administration -- action to correct something that started running away during Dubya's administration.

And, if we really need to point fingers, then we can say that it was unscrupulous business practices due to lack of oversight and regulations -- they very things that the righties want to abolish.

This is just another attempt by the right to lay hate on Obama.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9650

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, look on the bright side. If taken at face value, it appears that the Obama Administration has done quite a lot to improve the integrity and efficiency of the program by cracking down and incorporating many meaningful changes. While that might not mean that some right wing eager beaver from Fox News can't weasel a way to get multiple phones, we do have remember that we have to depend on private industry to play fairly and run a tight ship. Seems as though we can't always expect private industry to fulfill its obligations. It's an age old problem, and greed is at the bottom of it.

Anyone from the right up for more stringent government regulations and enforcement to correct the problems?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7929
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on Martha's Vineyard enjoying a little vacation with some friends. People are excited here for the presidents arrival next week, and they should be. He has done a pretty good job. BTW- nobody seems to be farked, far from it.
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