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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2737

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Everyone needs to stop making things up. The phone issue is that there is significant abuse of what was and still is a needed and functional program. It doesn't matter who initiated the program, what matters is who will rein in the abuse. It picked up the moniker of "Obama phone" because that's what the abusers call it...

That's what Mikey calls it. And, yes, he is an abuser, a fabricator, and a dissembler.

THE PROGRAM IS FUNDED BY FEES CHARGED TO SUBSCRIBERS, NOT TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

In short, it's an opportunity to fling feces at Obama, not to correct a problem -- because no problem exists.

IT IS NOT TAXPAYER MONEY. Thus, the indignation and outrage is fabricated.

But that's the right's stock in trade -- making up shit and then feigning outrage.


Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
Yet I could get a handful of Obamaphones just by holding out my hand near a welfare center.

That's not right

Why not, Mikey?

You hold out your hand and receive a government disability check every month. How is this different?
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2737

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Everyone needs to stop making things up.

Below is an excerpt from a Snopes.com page describing this program.

Note that the program is funded through fees assessed against providers that may or may not have been collected from subscribers by the FCC -- but it is NOT paid by taxpayer dollars.

_______________________


From that basic framework, rumors like the ones encapsulated in the Examples cited above have circulated, claiming that "the Obama administration created a program to give free cell phones paid for by taxpayer money to welfare recipients." All the elements of such statements are erroneous or exaggerated:

The Lifeline program originated in 1984, during the administration of Ronald Reagan; it was expanded in 1996, during the administration of Bill Clinton; and its first cellular provider service (SafeLink Wireless) was launched by TracFone in 2008, during the administration of George W. Bush. All of these milestones were passed prior to the advent of the Obama administration.

The Lifeline program only covers monthly discounts on landline or wireless telephone service for eligible consumers. It does not pay cellular companies to provide free cell phones to consumers, although some cellular service providers choose to offer that benefit to their Lifeline customers.

Lifeline discounts are not available only to "welfare recipients" -- these programs are implemented at both the state and federal levels, so qualification criteria can vary from state to state, but in general participants must have an income that is at or below 135% of the federal Poverty Guidelines, or take part in at least one of the following federal assistance programs:

Medicaid;
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (Food Stamps or SNAP);
Supplemental Security Income (SSI);
Federal Public Housing Assistance (Section 8 );
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP);
Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF);
National School Lunch Program's Free Lunch Program;
Bureau of Indian Affairs General Assistance;
Tribally-Administered Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TTANF);
Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations (FDPIR);
Head Start (if income eligibility criteria are met); or
State assistance programs (if applicable).

The Lifeline program is not directly subsidized by taxpayer monies. It is paid for out of the federal Universal Service Fund (USF) through a fee assessed against telecommunications service providers, who may or may not pass those costs along to their customers:

All telecommunications service providers and certain other providers of telecommunications must contribute to the federal USF based on a percentage of their interstate and international end-user telecommunications revenues. These companies include wireline phone companies, wireless phone companies, paging service companies and certain Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers.

Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about whether and how to assess charges to recover its Universal Service costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any fees from a Lifeline program participant.

The costs of administering the Lifeline program have increased greatly with the move towards cellular telephone services, leading the FCC to approve a comprehensive overhaul of the program in January 2012 intended to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse.

A number of web sites touting Lifeline benefits and imitating the look of government web sites have sprung up on the Internet, but those sites are privately operated ones created to promote the sales of cellular services and have no official connection to the federal government or the current presidential administration:

By 2010, Virgin Mobile, Verizon, Sprint, i-Wireless, Head Start, Consumer Cellular, Midwestern Telecom, Allied Wireless, and others had free phone plans. That's why you can find all these "free cell phone" websites that look kind of shady, like Obamaphone.net or FreeGovernmentCellPhones.net. In 2011, the FCC said that these carriers were "fiercely competing for the business of low-income consumers by marketing ‘free’ phones." TracFone spokesman Jose Fuentes [said], "We’ve had a lot of fly-by-night companies come in." Fuentes estimated that more than 1,700 wireless companies were part of Lifeline. Between 2008 and 2012, the number of people with Lifeline phones grew from 7.1 million to 12.5 million. These companies may be fly-by-night at providing cell phone service, but they are pretty good at marketing, and as the rush of merchandise tied to his inauguration showed, Obama's name seems to move product.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno said:
Quote:
THE PROGRAM IS FUNDED BY FEES CHARGED TO SUBSCRIBERS, NOT TAXPAYER DOLLARS.


Call it a fee, but I am required to pay the "UNIVERSAL SERVICE" FEE because I have a cell phone. I call it a TAX. The abuse is funded by millions and millions of FEE/TAX payers and it's time someone made an effort to stop the abuse.

And for those companies that don't charge the Universal Service Fee, don't you think that their pricing recovers the money they are TAXED by FCC. Can you say "hidden tax" to the consumer?

Tax Definition from the internet:
Quote:
tax

noun
1.
a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc.
2.
a burdensome charge, obligation, duty, or demand.

Since you claim it's a FEE, and seem to ignore the fraud, I can only assume you are fine with the abuse. However, since I choose to have a cell phone and must pay the fee with my service, I think I have the right to suggest that the current administration do something to rein in the problem. If Bush was President at this time, I would make the exact same point. FIX THE PROBLEM!

As I suggested in my first post, I heard that there was something in the works to help solve the problem, but I have heard nothing about what the FCC has been doing since January 2012 (from your post), or if they have done anything at all. Do you think there is no more fraud?
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2737

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:


Call it a fee, but I am required to pay the "UNIVERSAL SERVICE" FEE because I have a cell phone. I call it a TAX....

And for those companies that don't charge the Universal Service Fee, don't you think that their pricing recovers the money they are TAXED by FCC....

Tax Definition from the internet:
tax

noun
1.
a sum of money demanded by a government...

2.
a burdensome charge, obligation, duty, or demand....


Sorry, Ace. The choice to own, use, and pay for cellphone service is entirely YOURS. Nobody anywhere is compelling you to do it. If you don't like the pennies that Saint Reagan, Slick Willie, and Dubya extracted from providers, then don't pay for the service.

I buy plenty of gasoline, which includes all kinds of taxes. Some of those are supposed to pay for road upgrades -- roads that I use. But those roads are also used by trucks that deliver goods for many, many people who don't own cars. So, my fuel taxes have been used to provide a service to people who do not contribute.

Should I piss 'n moan about pennies like you do?

You, and so many like you, twist and turn and hyperventilate as you struggle to contrive indignation and outrage about Obama for whatever crazy reasons you pull outta your ass.

Frankly, it's funny.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14461

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FCC is probably devoting most of its manpower to finding a way to shut down conservative talk radio, as so many Democratic congressmen have vowed to do.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2737

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
The FCC is probably devoting most of its manpower to finding a way to shut down conservative talk radio, as so many Democratic congressmen have vowed to do.

Oh, you mean they'll plonk 'em, just like you do, Mikey?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So pueno, just as I suspected, the "Obama phone" abusers are fine with you, just keep taking and taking with no consequences. It's the liberal way of thinking, let the "rich" cell phone users provide service to all those that can't afford one - socialism at work.

And by the way, all taxes paid are the result of individual choices. You can live in the wood forever and never pay a tax if you choose to do so.
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joew



Joined: 18 Jul 1999
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to stop at red lights or stop signs either...... BUT, there are consequences for those choices.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2737

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
So pueno, just as I suspected, the "Obama phone" abusers are fine with you, just keep taking and taking with no consequences. It's the liberal way of thinking, let the "rich" cell phone users provide service to all those that can't afford one - socialism at work.

And by the way, all taxes paid are the result of individual choices. You can live in the wood forever and never pay a tax if you choose to do so.

No, I dislike abuse as much as you do.

And the abuse I dislike the most is all the blame and hate and indignation and outrage and feces you non-thinkers fling at Obama for the Lifeline program. He has NOTHING to do with any of it.

It's just that you guys need something to keep your bowels in an uproar; if it's not some guy name Ben Ghazzi, then "Obamaphones" will do just fine.

No wonder so many laugh at you fabricators.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2821

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
And the abuse I dislike the most is all the blame and hate and indignation and outrage and feces you non-thinkers fling at Obama for the Lifeline program. He has NOTHING to do with any of it.

The President of the United States has NOTHING to do with a Federal benefit program paid for by Federally mandated "fees" and overseen by a Federal agency whose commissioners are appointed by the President? A program that has nearly tripled in cost on his watch? Is there nothing you hold him accountable for?
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