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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1530
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
O'Rourke is intentionally a comedian. With NW it appears to be an accident.

So you believe in the faulty zero-sum theory, only a limited amount of wealth to go around, no such thing as growing the pot.
Got it.
I'm starting to figure you out, it's not a pretty picture.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3201

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listening to Talk gets one in the habit of inventing opinions for others that seem quite misguided.
I did this a lot. Iso does nothing else.
I learned that I was the one who thought of those stupid opinions. The other guy had no thought like that in his mind.
You can only find what the other guy thinks by asking him in a way that makes him want to take time to tell you. All other statements about the opinions of others are a product of your own mind.
Why do Talk guys do this? Why do my high school students do this?
Because the real ideas of others are complex and not easy to put in boxes.
So we invent something ignorant or extremist to make a moderate reasonable position easier to grapple with.
"You don't think we should err on the side of caution when handing out guns to
$&$holes. You are trying to take away everyone's hunting rifle. You will not be allowed to have any other opinion or I will get confused."
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4952

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, NW assigns opinions to me like this:

Quote:
So you believe in the faulty zero-sum theory, only a limited amount of wealth to go around, no such thing as growing the pot.
Got it.


When stuck for an argument, invent a position for someone else. Of course I think nothing of the kind--I just made fun of you for citing a comedian as an authoritarian source. Got it now? There is too much nonsense, and a little truth, to take whatever O'Rourke says as anything other than comedy. In any event, you rarely respond to rebuttals of your nonsense--but it is pretty easy to get under your skin.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13780

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm watching (Tue morning) a congressman discuss the pending fiscal cliff Senate bill they're wading through. So far they have found >$620 billion in higher taxes, NO ... that's zero, squat, zilch ... spending cuts, pay raises for federal employers, another year of cash incentives to remain unemployed, increased Medicare spending ... this thing should go down in flames if the GOP live up to their campaign promises.

Let's see what Obama gains if we go over the cliff:
vastly higher taxes and resulting costs on virtually every U.S. citizen.
Stick it to the GOP (he refused their requests to raise revenues by any other means but higher tax rates).
Divide the GOP.
Decimate the armed forces' capability to defend our nation.
No spending cuts (Reid claims there's a paltry $15B in there, but no one can find it yet.)
Extended welfare for the unemployed.


aaannnnd .
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1923
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
I'm watching (Tue morning) a congressman discuss the pending fiscal cliff Senate bill they're wading through. So far they have found >$620 billion in higher taxes, NO ... that's zero, squat, zilch ... spending cuts, pay raises for federal employers, another year of cash incentives to remain unemployed, increased Medicare spending ... this thing should go down in flames if the GOP live up to their campaign promises.

Let's see what Obama gains if we go over the cliff:
vastly higher taxes and resulting costs on virtually every U.S. citizen.
Stick it to the GOP (he refused their requests to raise revenues by any other means but higher tax rates).
Divide the GOP.
Decimate the armed forces' capability to defend our nation.
No spending cuts (Reid claims there's a paltry $15B in there, but no one can find it yet.)
Extended welfare for the unemployed.


aaannnnd .


Vastly higher taxes for virtually every citizen? What bill are you looking at? Income taxes reduced for everyone below $400K. That's 99% of taxpayers.

Mr. Fiction conveniently forgets the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to sunset yesterday. His cuts were temporary, so blame that guy for whom you cast two votes.

Divide the GOP?. Sorry, 2010 interim results and the current Speaker's inability to lead his own majority beat the Democrats to that.

Welfare, according to you, is not related to prior efforts or payments. That's how you justify your own federal disability benefits despite being perfectly well suited to windsurf the Gorge at your whim. Fair enough, but so then must be unemployment insurance since only the formerly employed and terminated at no fault qualify for benefits. Their employers contributed to those payments at the expense of the employees wage, if you believe all those "job creators" who claim to be willing to pay more but for all the taxes.

Your hypocrisy and feigned ignorance is stunning, though unsurprising. A friend teaching a university social psychology course is now using your replete internet record as something of a case study for classroom use. Congratulations, you finally may contribute something of value to society, albeit not the way you ever planned. Even emperors can be found to have no clothes. At least nobody feigns belief in you.

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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1305

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Dan. Very well stated.

I'd been on the verge of posting something very similar to your final paragraph, but had refrained on the grounds of being an outsider in a foreign land.

The first and last sentences of that paragraph are precisely to the point! (Thank you.)
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2572

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:

Your hypocrisy and feigned ignorance is stunning, though unsurprising. A friend teaching a university social psychology course is now using your replete internet record as something of a case study for classroom use. Congratulations, you finally may contribute something of value to society, albeit not the way you ever planned.

From some anonymous wise man: "No man is completely useless. He can always serve as a horrible example."
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan said:
Quote:
Fair enough, but so then must be unemployment insurance since only the formerly employed and terminated at no fault qualify for benefits. Their employers contributed to those payments at the expense of the employees wage, if you believe all those "job creators" who claim to be willing to pay more but for all the taxes.
.

I am not standing up for iso, but he said "extended welfare for the unemployed". I have mixed feelings about this, but his point is that after 6 months of normal unemployment insurance, it is now a type of welfare payment that seems as though it may continue indefinitely. A pretty darn good deal for a couple of million folks.

I wonder how many have found work, but below the level they once enjoyed, and they chose to not take the job because the pay was little or no better than the unemployment benefits. So now, they just keep looking (or not), waiting for "the better job" to come along - AT OUR EXPENSE. I like the idea of unemployment as a life line, but how long is too long? How about a special tax on those that have drawn over 6 months of benefits, to be paid back over time once they become employed again? Better a loan than welfare for working people.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13780

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
"extended welfare for the unemployed". I have mixed feelings about this, but his point is that after 6 months of normal unemployment insurance ...
I wonder how many have found work, but below the level they once enjoyed, and they chose to not take the job because the pay was little or no better than the unemployment benefits. So now, they just keep looking (or not), waiting for "the better job" to come along - AT OUR EXPENSE. I like the idea of unemployment as a life line, but how long is too long? How about a special tax on those that have drawn over 6 months of benefits,

How about fixing the existing system? We all know about the many standard dodges the unemployed can use to get max unemployment benefits (apparently almost two years now) with minimal job-hunting effort (virtually zero, if played right), We've all seen the employment "curves" which stay completely flat for months and months, then go through the roof the very month or week their benefits expire. We've all seen the media stories of people who demand that jobs be brought to them rather than "being forced" to relocate to find work ... as contrasted to the millions of incredibly hard-working people who die by the hundreds sneaking across our southern borders and disperse all over the U.S. and Canada, dodging ICE the whole time, living on the damned ground, so they can send most of their hard labor's wages home to feed their families ... while lazy-ass U.S. citizens watch their damned flat-screen TVs and play with their wii's at the taxpayers' expense for years after having done nothing besides drawing breath to earn that extended privilege.

Howe about:
Drug tests?
Means tests?
Hard proof of 8 hours a day desperately seeking ANY employment?
No more using EBT cards to buy ANYTHING from X-Box's to cigarettes to TIVO to virtually anything cash can buy (all allowed in some, maybe many, states)?
Sanity?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3467
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You? No, no sanity. ISO, how old will you be when Hillary finishes her second term in 2024? I'll be 57, and counting down the days until RGIII's retiremement.
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