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Life Vest
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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sl55 wrote:
I would worry that a visor that long could yank your head quite violently upon hitting the water causing neck injury.

Interesting concern. Hadn't really considered that. And this is certainly anecdotal, but I've never experienced any water impact that caused me the slightest twist or strain on my neck while wearing this helmet, and that includes some pretty violent high-speed wrecks. Of course I'll admit I probably haven't wiped out in every way humanly possible, but I think I've come pretty close. Wink

U2U2U2 wrote:
Of note this is designed for kayaking ..? speeds far different.

Ya think? Consider:

Waterfalls of Patagonia

Skip to 2:30 or so for some of the bigger drops. You get going pretty fast in near free-fall. Note that some guys in this video are wearing helmets with visors (the white one is the same model as mine) while others aren't, but they're all dropping enormous falls, and hitting water at seriously high velocity.

There are loads of discussions in whitewater circles about full-face helmets possibly increasing risk of neck injury (from snagging rocks or other fixed objects in the river bed), but I've never seen any talk of concern about brims causing increased risk of neck injury.

But yes, very different sports for sure, so take all that for whatever you feel it's worth.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1970
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great link, Grayson! Very nice.
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johnson_brian_j



Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 163
Location: Ventura County, California

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original question... I use an NRS Clearwater PFD. It's Coast guard approved, and it does not interfere at all with my harness or my freedom of movement.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14478

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grayson wrote:
You get going pretty fast in near free-fall ... all dropping enormous falls, and hitting water at seriously high velocity.

They're hitting bubbles while wrapped in water moving at their own speed. I'll bet their impact is nothing compared to a high platform dive, let alone a cliff dive. A cliff dive (i.e., ONto water, not in a waterfall) at anywhere near free fall/terminal velocity would be fatal ... and takes roughly a 1,500 foot free fall.
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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
grayson wrote:
You get going pretty fast in near free-fall ... all dropping enormous falls, and hitting water at seriously high velocity.

They're hitting bubbles while wrapped in water moving at their own speed. I'll bet their impact is nothing compared to a high platform dive, let alone a cliff dive. A cliff dive (i.e., ONto water, not in a waterfall) at anywhere near free fall/terminal velocity would be fatal ... and takes roughly a 1,500 foot free fall.

You're absolutely correct, and wise to point out, that aerated water is very different than standing water. But it's also worth being clear about the distinction between free fall and terminal velocity. Yes kayakers dropping most big falls are in (or at least very near) free fall for much of the drop. No they are not anywhere near terminal velocity, nor is any windsurfer until we start going >100 knots.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1048

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only have to wear a visored helmet on a motorcycle going 100mph ONCE, and you'll never do it again.
Just lift your head the slightest to look upwards maybe 20 degrees, and your visor is ripped off your helmet, straining your neck in the process.
In the water, the same RIP might be at 20 mph, or less.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 719

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought an NPX impact vest which is not USCG approved. And while it's very comfortable and you don't really even realize you are wearing it I'm finding the flotation is not enough.
I bought the vest for one reason, to help waterstarting. I seem to get very tired swimming my usual 8M rig around into position and trying to hold it up to catch the wind. I'm making a concerted effort to waterstart every time now instead of uphauling and actually finding it more tiresome.
So now I'm considering a real life vest. Side entry or zippered front with straps? This looks good, http://www.thehyperlitestore.com/products/1374-Life-Vests/21617-Hyperlite-Hatch-Side-Entry-CGA-Vest-in-Silver/
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy,

While flotation is helpful with water starting, the real key is an "egg beater" kick, which is a "frog" kick alternating legs (no pointed toes). It's what water polo and synchronized swimmers use to get up and out of the water. One arm also "fans" the water while the other works with the mast/sail. Master this and water starting becomes much easier.

In the mean time, a life jacket is fine to use.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 719

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggbeater kick, that's interesting, never heard of that.
I watched it on youtube and will try it, hope my knees can handle it.
Thanks.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you should just tie that impact vest to the tip of your mast.
Just thinking out loud here, since I find water starting any sail, even
a huge one, easier than uphauling, until there's not enough wind
to waterstart.

-Craig

beaglebuddy wrote:
I bought an NPX impact vest which is not USCG approved. And while it's very comfortable and you don't really even realize you are wearing it I'm finding the flotation is not enough.
I bought the vest for one reason, to help waterstarting. I seem to get very tired swimming my usual 8M rig around into position and trying to hold it up to catch the wind. I'm making a concerted effort to waterstart every time now instead of uphauling and actually finding it more tiresome.
So now I'm considering a real life vest. Side entry or zippered front with straps? This looks good, http://www.thehyperlitestore.com/products/1374-Life-Vests/21617-Hyperlite-Hatch-Side-Entry-CGA-Vest-in-Silver/
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