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Debt and causes
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Debt and causes Reply with quote

I found a very interesting site--facts, not Faux. http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/year_revenue_2007USbn_13bs1n#usgs302

To give you a snap shot of what Obama had to deal with, and what portion of the debt is associated with the recession, look at this trend on total Federal revenues, in trillions, by fiscal years:

2007 $5.1
2008 $4.7
2009 $3.7
2010 $4.7
2011 $4.8
2012 $5.0
2013 $5.5 (projected)

It makes it pretty clear that a big part of the accumulated debt had to do with the recession. Most programs had built in escalators, assuming revenue growth, and there was a huge bill for unemployment benefits--the safety net. But the drop in revenue over the 5 years or so was about $4 trillion. Of course this is compounded by the fact that the economy in 2007 was fake, built on a housing and credit bubble. Not all yet gone, but the worst of the pain is.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1919
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Not all yet gone, but the worst of the pain is."

That's a keeper, we'll see how that works out, and it probably won't take very long.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you doomsday guys still re using posts from four years ago?
Much of what I read here are exact quotes from that election.
I saw the head of the NRA in a commercial scaring us over guns again.
He actually said that the "proof" that O was going to take all your rifles away was the fact that he had not done it during his first four years.
I see comments in the media these days speaking of reality based politics.
The NRA ain't it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debt and causes? Um, spending trillions you don't have and borrowing to pay it off. How does that work for any of you in your personal lives?
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Debt and causes? Um, spending trillions you don't have and borrowing to pay it off. How does that work for any of you in your personal lives?


I would not consider paying rent or my grocery bills to be the primary driver of my debt - not collecting a paycheck perhaps seems a more obvious reason.

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florian - ny22

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1550

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser said:
Quote:
I would not consider paying rent or my grocery bills to be the primary driver of my debt - not collecting a paycheck perhaps seems a more obvious reason.

True for some, but what about all those folks that maxed out their credit cards, bought into a huge mortgage, and overspent/overindulged in "the good life" that are also in trouble.

And what do the smart folks in both categories above do when they are drowning in debt? Cut expenses, look for more work/income, look for a handout or live on the street.

Our government seems to ignore the obvious which is to cut expenses because it's less painful to most to tax the rich and borrow/print more $. However, this is not a solution, just a temporary, easy political fix (got to get re-elected) attitude that will eventually bring this great nation to its knees one day.

Liberals never seem to acknowledge the debt crisis, other than blaming Bush for the "unfunded wars". OK, we get that, but now it's Obama's debt and the approaching abyss is his to navigate.

I am OK with taxing the rich, but that will do little to solve the debt problem. I think its just a political ploy to wind favor with those that are jealous of those that have been extremely successful (which happens to include a significant number of sport, movie, political & TV, celebrities).
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3753
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno, did you know that the last Republican to balance a budget is IKE in 1956/1957? or When the Repubs had all three branches of GOVT they doubled the debt? Yet its the "liberals" who dont get the debt crisis....quite puzzling, but not really.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now Techno, you are just being silly--and of course, making it up again, when you say:

Quote:
Liberals never seem to acknowledge the debt crisis, other than blaming Bush for the "unfunded wars". OK, we get that, but now it's Obama's debt and the approaching abyss is his to navigate.



The whole purpose of the posting was to give you the multiple sources of the current debt problem. Did you even bother to read it? Several on the forum that you would call "liberals" have said, consistently, that the Middle Class needs to pay more for benefits, or accept cuts. That is pretty much the opposite of what you allege that we are saying. Some of the debt is in fact Obama's--but the vast majority of the debt stems from the structural deficits that the Bush tax cuts created, and the housing bubble and subsequent collapse--which were Republican policy. You righties just can't seem to comprehend the math. So sad. So you make up dialogue for us--and we tell you, again, that it is a lie.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900,

While none of us is old enough to remember the Great Depression, but I think most of us recognize that it lasted well over a decade. I feel that the impact of such financial devastation and the ensuing recovery wasn't that easily resolved. Similarly the recovery from our more recent deep recession caused by our financial meltdown isn't simply overcome, especially considering our significant military involvement in the Middle East and Afghanistan with the financial strain those wars have caused us.

For the right, they would like to think that our situation will somehow be fixed by cutting into their most hated government programs, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. With them the answer is extreme austerity for all of those programs that help seniors and those least able to handle it. Their fix is cutting the crap out of everything they don't like, but conveniently they don't want to reach into their own pockets and contribute anything at all. All of their nonsense about lower taxes being the source of growth and prosperity has proven to be totally false, but they still have the audacity to promote continued tax cuts as some kind of solution to our deficit and debt problem.

Don't you see what's wrong with this picture? I've said it a number of times before, but it always worth repeating. You will never pay off your debts by making the minimum payment, and that's what the Republicans want to do. Until they get serious, I have no support for their kind of austerity and lack of responsibility. You can try blaming everything on those from the left, but when it comes to spending the Republicans have always proven to be just as irresponsible, and arguably more so. That's what the facts prove, and seriously doubt that you can prove otherwise.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1550

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, I don't think I can "make up" an observation.

So we now know how & why we got into deep debt. I can read, but I guess you guys are having difficulty understanding my point, so here it is again.

My point is what do we do about our increasing debt?

Don't worry about it? Seems to be the left's view since you guys can't or won't discuss solutions, only rehash history and lay blame.

At this point in time, the right is trying to offer solutions, but the left is not, they just criticize the right.

Will taxing the rich have any meaningful impact? NO!

Do we just keep spending and borrowing forever and not worry about the consequences?

If at some point we can't borrow enough to make our debt payments, what happens then?

Doesn't the above sentence seem to be incredibly stupid - borrowing to pay of debt?

Since medicare and social security are now pyramid schemes, they will not survive without changes, so what does the left suggest as solutions? Apparently, nothing, just kick the can down the road.

Since Obama wants to be King and take control of increasing the debt limit at will, doesn't that scare any of you?

Obama shares in the blame for this dangerous course, but regardless of how we got here, he has been in charge for 4 years and will be in charge for 4 more, so what will he do if anything about the debt?

swchandler - The right can't get very serious about solutions since the Senate would block anything and everything that would have a significant impact. So what would you have them do?
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