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Endurance training for windsurfing (running, in particular)
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of virtually no direct benefit ... and a couple of significant negative impacts -- of running to windsurfing. (Don't go there; aerobic/anaerobic capacity conditioning occurs in the body's muscles, not the heart and lungs.) There may be some heart muscle benefit IF our running includes some serious fartlek/interval sprints, and MAYBE running's slight and highly specific strength benefit to the legs near full extension MIGHT benefit straight-line flat-water cruising, but not by much I'd guess. Running trains our bodies to run; two major, maybe the primary, reasons Roger Bannister broke the 4-minute mile were interval training and genetics. Unless competitive running is our objective, there are MANY better ways to get fit, and even then the type of racing we do strongly affects the training we must do. One highly qualified sports physician put it this way, approximately: "The only people who should run high miles are serious marathon competitors, and they must realize that it destroys their health."
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
There is a wealth of knowledge to show that long term fitness and health is vastly improved by working long and hard at any activity PROVIDED you are aiming for stamina, and not sustained maximum power output. In cycling for instance we use the zone method. After establishing your maximum heart rate by a build up to maximum sustained effort to the point of near collapse, the various zones are calculated as a percentage of that maximum heart rate.(Zone 1 at 60/65% of max to zone 5 at 89/94% of max.) You can then ride all day mostly in say zone 3 for building and maintaining long term stamina. That's probably how it works for most of us in windsurfing also.

At anyrate, I aim and expect to live to 100!

The originator and long-time primary cheerleader of the aerobics concept you're describing is Dr. Kenneth Cooper of Dallas's renowned Cooper Institute, who has since retracted the whole concept.

There are a number of online longevity predictors we can use to guesstimate our remaining lifespan based on giant actuarial statistical databases, mostly provided and used by life insurance companies who bet their fiscal futures on their accuracy. We feed in our age and health data and habits, and they tell us at what age we are statistically expected to die. We can then play Monte Carlo games, by changing our inputs, to see how various changes might impact that median demise year. There won't be many big surprises (we know smoking, obesity, and sitting all day are all more or less comparably dangerous even if we also work out), but knowledge that statistics based on millions of deaths give us just a handful of years might motivate us to change some habits.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1391

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitness, and ways of achieving and maintaining it are as old as the human race. I imagine Stone Age man knew only too well, from experience, what was needed of him to hunt, and stay alive, even if he didn't have a fancy name for it! To suppose any single person (a modern one at that) originated the concept of aerobics is just a modern world form of conceit. (The ancient Greeks also knew all about athletics, and the perfect body form.)

Suffice to say, I've had a superb mountain bike day in glorious sunshine and icy cold air, and maintained an average 143 heart rate (163 peaks) for over an hours stiff climbing to reach the tops. If, (at 75 years old) my lifelong approach to fitness and maintaining it has been discredited, I'll eat my hat!

As for living to 100, it was a joke -- but then again, why not? Isn't it a fact that zest and enthusiasm for life have a bearing on the matter?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Slinky,

Try this workout for your shoulder.

Coachg. I can heartily endorse that workout which I have used, plus a couple of additions, to great effect in shoulder/ rotator cuff rehab. I also echo your weight recommendation. 5lb dumbbells may seem very light at first, but with proper form and no breaks, the muscles will be screaming by the end of the routine.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1859
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running.
"I can't go for that, no, no, no, no can do".
My knees won't let me, eventhough I can WS for hours.

It's the rowing machine for me, total full body workout, zero impact on the knees. Arms and shoulders get a good workout along with my legs and back.

I use a Bowflex XTL in the rowing configuration, 30 minutes at a whack.
I only do it during the offseason, about 5 days a week.
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ramps



Joined: 07 May 2000
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycling works for me. Not only low impact (can't run, bad knee but cycling seems to help that a great deal) but I keep 2000 - 3000 miles per year from accumulating on my vehicles. Just gotta keep from getting run over.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw a TV interview of a doctor discussing that study. His bottom line was alarming, as it strongly implies my approach to sports is likely to shorten my life span significantly. He says intense exercise beyond 30-40 minutes most days is more dangerous than living on a couch because of what the former does to our hearts.

My recent gym program modifications -- from all-out, non-stop, very intense, whole-body circuit training for 3-6 hours three days a week to even more intense but 95% shorter exercise sessions much less often -- were in the right direction for that and many other reasons. But I'll be damned if I'm going to reduce my shred time or intensity just because some study says it may kill me. (I probably will ask a cardiologist whether I should get a heart calcification evaluation.)
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2429

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like my idea of sailing for 2 hours straight, going about 1/2 mile each reach, jibing maybe 120 times, planing out of 100, and never falling, while never coming close to out of breathe.
Then it's off to eat somthing tasty.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
I like my idea of sailing for 2 hours straight, going about 1/2 mile each reach, jibing maybe 120 times, planing out of 100, and never falling, while never coming close to out of breathe.

I'm guessing my carcass would appreciate that approach, but I don't give it that chance. I'm happiest when pushing it to its RPM, skill, and endurance limits in any sport, which is why I gave up motorized (i.e., high-speed) sports decades ago as too injurious. I'm sure that generated my endurance, but it's going to be ironic if the cardiologist tells me my lifetime of WFO play has calcified my heart to the extent that I'm a heart attack waiting to happen (cardiac calcium is very often asymptomatic.)
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1048

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figure, I've pushed myself plenty in my younger years, and can now reap the benefits of brains and experience to ENJOY my elder years, taking it easy and sitting back a bit.
I still sail with the fastest slalom sailors around Berkeley, but only for less than 1.5 hours. Slalom is still one track minded sailing, and I need to throw in a jump or ride at least one big windswell to complete the experience.
Modern freestyle, I don't know. Just not into dunking my surfer's ear'd head and sunburnt eyes 150 times a day, I don't think. I'd like to think I can still sail what windsurfer's call "logo high" surf at Waddell and Davenport, Backyards or DiamondHead. I wonder.....
Time accumlated on this earth should teach each one of us something. What it taught me is that everyone get's better, peaks, and get's worse. No need to compete head to head with 27 year olds anymore.
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