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pacspeed



Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 612

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Eco Nazis are simply out of control in Marin.

Used to be able to dirt bike China Camp - Gone
Used to be able to kite the Corte Madera side of Larkspur bay - Gone
Used to be able to kite Limantour - Gone
Used to be able to MTB single tracks - Gone

Used to be a free country.
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airwave



Joined: 29 Jun 2000
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt we need to protect wilderness areas. But not everything done by man actually destroys the the wilderness and not every area needs to be wilderness.
Balance and reasonable consideration needs to be given to all issues. The Drakes Bay area is an example. Oystering can be done along with protecting other parts of the area.

A similar problem is happening on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Over the past century the 60-90 miles of sea shore has been partly built on, partly protected by the National Park Service, and partly made into public access. Parts of it for a century have been open space for fishing, surfing, windsurfing, and plain old family beach activities. There have been access points to drive a 4x4 out to the beach on. Almost of the area is only accessible by 4x4 and the access has been free. This year the National Park Service decided that the plover nesting became far more endangered than it was over the past 100 years. So, you can no longer 4x4 on the strand of public beaches. They are inaccessible otherwise. BUT, just to be fair the Park Service made an allowance. For $50 per week you can drive your 4x4 on the beach. For $50 per week you may continue to fish and let your kids play in the ocean in these areas. For $50 bucks you are free to destroy the plover nesting areas.

Also, about every year a hurricane or a big NorEaster blows through and pretty much reclaims every square inch of sand and puts it back to its natural state of being. The hurricanes and NorEaster's do not seem to want to obey the rules about protecting the plover nesting.

Pretty stupid.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had friends on both sides of this issue, friends with excellent environmental credentials. I have declined to take a position because it is complicated and facts matter. But since this seems to have become a libertarian cause celebre, absent those facts, I would like to point out a few. First, despite the name calling about eco-nazis and talk about taking away rights, it is important to remember that the submerged land in question is public land, subject to the public trust. Second, it is important to realize that Congress authorized the establishment and purchase of land in a wilderness area, subject to a set of legal requirements. The current lease holders bought the land knowing that there was a limited tenure and no right to renew the lease. Some say that should settle it, a deal is a deal and they should keep their bargain. Others say that it is an environmentally responsible use and sustainable. Still others say that they are concerned because the oysters farmed are not native and are supplanting local ecology. I don't know the facts on any of these--but I know that, as usual, Mike Fick is weighing in on the libertarian wave length, without any understanding of the facts.

It seems to me that the issue is whether or not the operation is consistent with the established laws that came into effect when it was established as a wilderness area. They bought it with that knowledge.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3572
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pacspeed wrote:
Agreed. Eco Nazis are simply out of control in Marin.

Used to be able to dirt bike China Camp - Gone
Used to be able to kite the Corte Madera side of Larkspur bay - Gone
Used to be able to kite Limantour - Gone
Used to be able to MTB single tracks - Gone

Used to be a free country.

MTB single track-gone.....??????? me thinks not.
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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1298
Location: Marin

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
It seems to me that the issue is whether or not the operation is consistent with the established laws that came into effect when it was established as a wilderness area. They bought it with that knowledge.


True, though the law on this is fuzzy. The lease apparently is renewable as per the original law passed in 1972. However, even though they leased the land knowing it could be taken away, they approached it as a chance to demonstrate what could be done, perhaps in the hopes that it could change minds. It appears to have done that at least in the case of Dianne Feinstein, and the other supporters of the oyster farm. NPS will have none of that however. With them they will go to all means to remove the oyster farm, even subterfuge.

Steve
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pacspeed



Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 612

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggs, Of course we all still do it, but the official policy of Marin County Open Space District, and Marin Municipal Water District is single tracks are not open to bikes.

It's just another small notch in the relentlessly oppressive regulatory environment here. Every one of the measures on their own seems small, but it's truly death by a thousand cuts.

If you were a landowner in San Geronimo valley whose rights to improve your property was just summarily taken to protect the 150 salmon coming up the creek it sure wouldn't seem small.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3572
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pacspeed, do we know each other? Sail Tomales?
Steve...I just read that the final decision was made, that sucks, I agree with the posters here, and I blame the old ladies who drive Priuses , and yell at me when I come up behind them on my single speed without warning Twisted Evil
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koogzah



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 488
Location: right here

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For better or worse, it's a done deal.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/AP-NewsBreak-Feds-deny-oyster-farm-lease-renewal-4077505.php
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victor



Joined: 03 Aug 1998
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, what about the other endangered species? i.e. family owned sustainable businesses that provide a great product with negligible impact on the environment.

lawson's landing at dillon beach is in the nazis' crosshairs. probably the last privately owned campground on the california coast and a great surfing/sailing/kiting spot. they've been picking away at that place for years.
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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1298
Location: Marin

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pacspeed wrote:
Boggs, Of course we all still do it, but the official policy of Marin County Open Space District, and Marin Municipal Water District is single tracks are not open to bikes.


Come up to my house in Fairfax and I'll show you 10+ miles of the best single tracks on the continent. You'll have to buy a Friends of Tamarancho permit however.

Sad news about the Lunny's. As far as I'm concerned, there's a special place in Hell reserved for the Sierra Club and the Park Service.

Steve
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