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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:

By now our economy would have been growing at 5% plus.

Or maybe +50%

Or maybe -50%.

Or maybe -99%

We'll never know, will we?
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5560

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler--how silly of me to have expected the right to absorb the facts. The Freddie and Fannie show didn't help, but they were late to the trough, and a relatively small part of the debacle. Of course, they were doing what was allowed under the deregulation.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5560

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case someone wants to read a balanced article about the crisis that puts the role of Freddie and Fannie into perspective, this is pretty good:

http://capone.mtsu.edu/berc/tnbiz/freefall/timmons.html

The Cliff's note version:

After repeal of the Glass Steagall Act, the subprime loan business boomed. HUD policies that required a substantial portion of their loans--52%--to people below the median income level.

Cheap money and the lack of any rigorous means test for loans ignited a huge bubble in real estate. It cannot be argued that the HUD rules drove this bubble--40% of the purchases went to people who were not buying a primary residence--investors and owners of second homes.

Not in this article, but from other sources, Fannie and Freddie resisted buying securitized loans until pressured,

Sub prime loans went from a minor area of finance to a 600 billion a year business, 20% of all loans. They were, in essence, vapor ware. Policies written into the repeal of Glass Steagall by Gramm forbid regulation of those loans. The Bush administration completed the job by looking the other way and not using any of the authority that they had.

For people who purport to care deeply about money and the market, the right seems utterly clueless on this issue.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5560

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a little tidbit for RR. The Canadian government also provides subsidies for home ownership--although substantially more conservative:

Quote:
it is important to recognize that Canada does have a government body to promote housing finance: the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which is the dominant credit insurer of mortgages in the country. Whether or not you like the idea of such a government financing operation, at least its status is perfectly clear and honest. The Canadian government owns 100% of its stock. Its guaranty from the government is explicit. It provides housing subsidies which are on budget and must be appropriated
.

From American Heritage Institute--which continues to blame Freddie and Fannie.

The right wing narrative has all those who are successful pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. In the case of the home building, selling, ownership, and remodeling business, the truth is that the government is back there tugging up on those bootstraps. But let's cut food stamps because we can't afford to subsidize the shiftless poor. It seems to be that we have fostered an entitled mentality in our construction industry,
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3751
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:

RR...I'll answer the question why you had an impressive 38% rally this year. Easy central bank monetary policy has flooded the world with liquidity, same reason Im up 23% this year , without even working.. Thanks BEN!!!

Sorry but wrong.
Question relating to my business not investments:
"Can you explain my 38% increase in sales this year over last year?"

Genius, I am referring to your business. If you can't understand how central bank easing, historic easing..that is, is helping construction and real estate, than I can't help you.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1103

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! A guy goes to experience a humbling yet fun day of 40 knots rag doll WSing session only to find the usual assumptions of what I think, know, don't know, understand or don't understand (some even about my own country). You guys should go back and read what you've written. Perhaps a good WSing session could do everyone a little good. Auto attack mode or what?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
Auto attack mode or what?


LOL, love it!
But that does tell you something about the people on the liberal side these days. They are getting kinda harsh, wonder why?

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4336

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
Insanity. We should have let the banks fail. The smaller more stable banks and investors on the sideline would have picked up the slack.

By now our economy would have been growing at 5% plus. We should have punished the bad boys, and supported the good ones. Now the bad boys are lap dogs for who ever is in power.

Steve...I know you are hell bent or believing this revisionist viewpoint, but let me help. If we "let the banks fail", asset prices would have plunged in the liquidations...crushing the small banks , and bankrupting most investors. There would have been nobody left to pick up the pieces. I know its cool so keep saying it in hindsight, but you really weren't paying attention when the unwind was taking place.
RR...I'll answer the question why you had an impressive 38% rally this year. Easy central bank monetary policy has flooded the world with liquidity, same reason Im up 23% this year , without even working.. Thanks BEN!!!


From my perspective, the collapse would have allowed the little man and medium size banker who played it safe their whole life to get into the game cheap and change the world for the better. You know I was calling for this in 08/09. Wow, we'll have to sail Waddell together before I'm too old! BTW I've benefited mightily with this cheap money. I am not a hypocrite.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1103

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictures from Tuesday:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dean-Peever-Photography/194598140585455?ref=ts&fref=ts

http://steveslaby.zenfolio.com/p897798472/slideshow
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6022

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers,

With all this growing mystery about your business and its growth over a span of years, to include the successful weathering of the last 5 to 6 years of the Great Recession, I was a bit curious. From what you've said in the past, I'm under the impression that you're a building contractor involved in an array of construction projects, many of which might be residential in nature. What I was wondering is whether you bill on a monthly basis as work progresses, based on agreed major milestones, or upon the final completion of the project. If you bill monthly or based on milestones, is the customers responsible for the direct payment for materials as they are incurred?

Lastly, I was curious whether you are responsible for the architectural design and engineering phases of projects, and if so, do you subcontract the work, or do you maintain your own in-house staff to do the work?
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