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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Mac says there must be compromise!

Mac's definition of compromise: The other side caves.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5222

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac belittles the inability of the right to actually do math, much less remember the budget areas out of balance due to any actions by any politician except Obama. Mac is highly amused by the prolongued sense of denial of the right for their disastrous results, and fully expects them to continue to believe that a true conservative would have done better. Dream on, and continue the insults of women and minorities and it will get worse. Mac is also highly amused by the failure of the Tea Party nuts, having lost several of their most rabid members in the last election, to grasp the limited amount of power they have. He's not sure whether it is their rank amateurism in understanding politics, or their inability--along with Techno and NW, to count.

What a scream.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling the any effort to eliminate or sunset the so-called Bush tax cuts as an attack on the rich is misleading at best. Tax rates go up for nearly every taxpayer!

The 10% bracket is eliminated. In its place as the lowest rate for the lowest bracket is 15%.

25% bracket returns to 28%, 28% changes 31%, 33% increased to 36%, 35% goes to 39.6%

Indeed, as a percentage of taxable income, the lowest income earners shoulder the largest rate increase. The top earners rate increases less.

The entire reason we use a percentage of earned income as opposed to a head tax is to tax each according to his or her ability to pay. It is therefore not germane to discuss the normative burden of the wealthy as defined by the gross tax receipts. It is axiomatic to any percentage-based system that people with higher levels of earned income will pay more money.

What that rate ought to be is the subject of reasonable debate, but to say that allowing the Bush tax cuts to lapse puts a differently greater burden on the wealthy is hogwash. I would hope the conservative voters can understand this distinction and cease raising the victim flag for the rich. As a top gross bracket guy myself, I will feel the difference in March but not in any way like the far less fortunate who will have a greater percentage of their income taxed and who feel the value of every dollar more directly than those at the top.

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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1945
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicate post
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Last edited by DanWeiss on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3370

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though all parties agree on the tax rates for 98% of Americans, the GOP has elected to not allow their members to vote.
The GOPs poor leadership wishes to hold the bulk of the American people's taxes as a hostage to get tax reductions for the rich.
Same with debt ceiling.
Here is a chance for bipartisanship, with GOP leadership standing squarely in the way of their own people, as well as most Americans including many rich people. Leadership has slipped from representing 53% of Americans down to maybe one to two percent or less.
This why O is taking it to the people. There has to be some limit to the GOP sell out to special interests, ESP when the special interests themselves, like Buffet and the Patriotic Millionaire group, has asked them to act instead in the interests of the American people.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3370

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I mention that my entire income is now from interest and cap gain so I will be hit by higher tax rates as well?
Those are the rates from the pre Bush years when most Americans, rich and poor were doing better every year.
I add my vote to fixing this in line with the Dem plan, not because I benefit,but because my country needs it.
Polls show that the majority of both libs and conservatives agree.
Techno you are smart guy, and your posts have substance. Do you think the Congress should vote on retaining tax breaks for most people right now?
Or do you support continuing to block Congress from voting on a bipartisan measure with strong agreement on all sides?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5222

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The total insanity of this comment didn't percolate through my skull at first:

Quote:
Who here is willing to compromise?


Indeed. After 4 years of refusing to cooperate with Democrats on nearly everything, holding the economy hostage, and slurs against the President, the Republicans are rebuked in a national election. Obama runs, and wins, with having the rich pay more as a key element of his campaign. The public loses all respect for Congress, and for Tea party types in particular, and they survive only in districts created by Republican redistricting catering to the batshit crazy. Now compromise consists of the Republicans dictating the terms of slight revenue increases--but only if social programs are decimated?

I think we need some drug testing programs in the workplaces of commenters.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1477

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that the right would go with a tax increase on the top 2%, but only if the left is willing to concede some spending cuts; SS & Medicare reform & tax loophole/deduction reform.

The right is using "no tax on the rich" as leverage to get the left to COMPROMISE in some way. Just an opinion.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5818

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Republicans take a position that SS and Medicare cuts are a condition to gain their agreement to increase tax rates on those making in excess of $200-250K, they will lose and we will go over the fiscal cliff. I think any decision to cut SS and Medicare will require a well thought out effort and negotiation that can't realistically be accomplished by the end of the year. Leave to the Republicans to prove how thoughtless and stupid they can be in their arrogance.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3554
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
My guess is that the right would go with a tax increase on the top 2%, but only if the left is willing to concede some spending cuts; SS & Medicare reform & tax loophole/deduction reform.

The right is using "no tax on the rich" as leverage to get the left to COMPROMISE in some way. Just an opinion.

Techno
The Right does not want to touch loopholes, and deductions, they just toss out the talking points. If Boehner went public with a reduction in mortgage interest deductability, the ABA, and NAR would skewer him...not gonna happen. The right is fine with a little marginal rise, they can make it up with some more deductions, off shore vehicles..they are using it to lever some cuts.
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