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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5834

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you imagine the turmoil in the health insurance business if a Medicare type system was universal for all? All their business and profits would simply vaporize.

Health insurance under the ACA is totally based on capitalism and private business. Of course, under the ACA there are laws and regulations to ensure the quality of the product, but they are arguably very similar to group policies today. Republicans have to like the model, because they would promote use of the same private insurance companies through a government voucher system to seniors once they get a chance to "do over" Medicare again.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
coboardhead wrote:


If not about healthcare, what was the purpose of the ACA?


Control, and the power it brings.

Everything we choose to do, everything we choose to eat, what life style we choose to live, will all fall under Obamacare and now the IRS as well, in a way that our choices have never been effected before.
Our healthcare could be held over us individuals like hammer.


Yea, that's a non-starter, built on nothing but paranoia. If you at least could identify one motivation and one piece of proof for a government wanting to control your behavior... I guess it must be like with the fluoride in the tap water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHNYenN7OY

Trust me - it's not cost effective to try and control the behavior of a bunch of nuts.

What is plausible and desirable is to control the cost of health care, especially since the Government (i.e. your tax dollars) is already one of the biggest per-capita spender on health care - and that is BEFORE ACA or "socialized medicine".

Quote:


Socialized medicine and freedom have always been at odds with each other throughout history.


Do you mind elaborating on this hypothesis? Or can we scrap that as well?

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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While France and Sweden and the other countries in Europe with socialized medicine are often just as pissed off at their gov. and economies as we are, they don't seem to lack freedom to me.
In Belize there is very little Government because of the dirt cheap taxes which mostly go to free healthcare. It is more free there than most people can stand.
Conservatives do not rail against Big Government there despite socialized medicine.
They are pissed off at untrained cops, bad roads, blackouts, long lines in Gov. offices, all the benefits of low taxes.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW..if you do not want insurance, Do not buy it pay the small tax and pay cash for medical care. It is still an option, you know.

Funny how each of us see freedom. I am now free to retire anytime I feel like it without worry anymore about having my insurance cancelled and a medical bankruptcy.

Feuser is correct. The governments are into health care at 50% of all costs. The governments, I guess, under the current Republican model of healthcare delivery, should just pay whatever it costs...in the interest of freedom???
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1722
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="coboardhead"]NW..if you do not want insurance, Do not buy it pay the small tax and pay cash for medical care. It is still an option, you know.

Funny how each of us see freedom. I am now free to retire anytime I feel like it without worry anymore about having my insurance cancelled and a medical bankruptcy.
[quote]

That small tax (penalty) grows every year, and will to the point that you no longer have a choice, but...........
I won't be affected, I'm keeping my policy that is grandfathered in according to them, so for now I'm sticking with what I got, it will save me about $150/month over Obamacare, from what I've found out........... (Blue Cross, while it's still alive).

"I guess, under the current Republican model of healthcare delivery, should just pay whatever it costs...in the interest of freedom???"

That sounds like you're assuming that the GOP never came up with anything else, but they did, and it made sense..... (look it up if you can find it).
Opposed to Bajadean's "the media is not liberal" [yuk-yuk], it's been buried so that it had a tough time ever seeing the light of day, and the GOP totally sucked at bring it back up, but it's still there somewhere if you're really interested.
In fact the GOP really sucked at their un-unified argument, they are in for a civil war w/in their ranks and it couldn't come sooner.
Get McCain, McConnell, and their bunch the hell out of there, they are nothing but a bunch of democrat lites.
I don't want us to be just another European failing country.

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I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW

I have not found a full GOP proposal. Most of the ones that I read included removal of tax benefits to employer sponsored insurance as the main event, turning Medicaid to the states, and the ability to offer insurance across state lines, but did little but cut reimbursement rates to providers in Medicare to contain costs. The Repubs tried containing costs only at the payment end starting in the late nineties. Does not work!

I was very opposed to the Bill and Hillary show on healthcare in the nineties ( back when I thought the republicans had a better fiscal sense). Secretive meetings, without engaging health care providers, did not cut it. The model of requiring closely regulated HMO's that collectively bargained for a healthcare regional market was laughable where I live.

I attended a number of meetings with a local physicians organization. This is where I heard about the Heritage plan. I thought it had merit. The ACA contains a lot of this plan. So, I am sticking with the Repub plan we have for now.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4155

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it be true that all the glitches in the ACA website are a cover up to hide the truth about its high prices?

There are reports that this was implemented by Democrat operatives. I am not making a judgment either yeah or nay. It seems that something is wrong, and no one is willing to stand up and take responsibility.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5260

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love folks like NW. They are trying to take the GOP further into the box canyon. Describing McCain et al as Democrat lites is part of their strategy of making the tent smaller--but true to only their ideology. The loony right has no idea that they lost. As one of my politician friends said today, the Tea Party has no learning curve.

Can we hedge fund the GOP?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Could it be true that all the glitches in the ACA website are a cover up to hide the truth about its high prices?

There are reports that this was implemented by Democrat operatives. I am not making a judgment either yeah or nay. It seems that something is wrong, and no one is willing to stand up and take responsibility.


Stevenbard

For fun, I got on the Colorado exchange. It took about two minutes to get a quote. Last time I bought insurance it took two weeks to get a quote!

That said...the exchange's rate was higher than the quote I received directly from the insurer last week. So, it makes me think that this needs to sort out some! It may be the difference in rates for next year vs this year. My premiums have been increasing close to 10% per year. It did not seem like anything was hidden...no Democrat jumped in front of my monitor.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1485

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife is retired and on COBRA, but will need insurance in a few months to be covered while waiting for Medicare.

I went on line to set up an account for her on the ACA web site. After 40 minutes of working through the system, I hit a road block where it won't allow me to continue for no apparent reason.

I don't know what's ahead, but shopping suggests that I can price coverage from ACA and compare with other available options, but that's currently not possible.

From what I have experienced so far, most folks with little or no experience with computers will give up or get really frustrated with the process. I have tried again to move ahead with no success. It's been about one hour now working through the system, and I probably won't have to work through the "financial assistance" segment since we are not eligible. When and if I get to pricing, I will let you know.

No wonder the government won't share the number of folks that have SUCCESSFULLY signed up. It's probably none on the .gov website.
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