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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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DanWeiss wrote: | But what you use as an example is a license or at best a lease paradigm, not ownership. |
Did I suggest anything different than that? I stated that nearly all major highway projects in the DC area have been financed by, constructed by, and operated by private companies. In the case of the I-95 Express Lanes, private entities are financing 93% of the nearly $1billion cost. They build, operate and maintain those roads over a concession period up to 99 years. They take the revenue and they take the risk. Despite the angry response from the left coast, this is not controversial. It's a reasonable strategy for cash strapped localities. It is happening elsewhere in the US and in other countries |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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pueno wrote: | But the point of this discussion is your prior comment all those government programs that run so far in the red. |
You may be mistaking me for another teabagger.......and you need new counsel and auditors. Unless a nonprofit is receiving Federal funding with expenditure requirements, the entity can accumulate large surpluses for the furtherance of the entity's mission without fear of consequence........and the auditors' role is to opine on the effectiveness of the control system, and on the financial statements. They are not there to second guess management decisions. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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There is an old saying--when you are in a hole, first stop digging. After claiming that the private sector will solve the transportation problems in the United States, mrgybe, as usual when he is rebutted, becomes defensive and doubles down. Missing, of course, the ironic poke and the larger issues.
There is a difference between being well read and simply reposting those things that appeal to your sense of bias--like toll roads as a specific example. There are a number of think tanks out there proposing different approaches to transportation funding, such as the Reason Foundation, a proponent of congestion pricing and toll roads. http://reason.org/areas/topic/311.html I've seen them in conferences since I used to be in the transportation business, and they have both good and bad ideas. I think their insight on congestion pricing is spot on, and it is making traction in governance. The toll road issue is quite another matter.
There is nothing wrong with toll roads if done right, and they can be part of the solutions in crowded urban areas where there is a willingness or capacity to pay for less congestion. But the difficulty is that they are not scalable. What works in high demand/low price elasticity corridors in urban areas doesn't translate to lower demand or high elasticity corridors. There is actually a rich literature on this, which I won't bother to cite. Pushing the 0.2% of roads that are toll roads to 1 or 2% may be the limitations on the concept. A niche, not a magic bullet.
It is analogous to the environmental community thinking that bio-diesel is the solution to transportation. Both are magical thinking without sufficient rigor to understand that the concepts are both niches, and will not scale. In the case of bio-diesel, it is a feel good measure that often ignores the downsides. There is no supply of bio-diesel base materials to serve beyond a niche--perhaps running local garbage trucks. And while bio-diesel is far superior to standard diesel for particulates, it is much worse for NOX. Such magical thinking is akin to making contributions to fight malaria in Africa--and ignoring the role of poverty.
There are no magic bullets. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | There is an old saying--when you are in a hole, first stop digging. After claiming that the private sector will solve the transportation problems in the United States, mrgybe......... |
No matter how many times he is caught, he never stops. It's quite astonishing. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Pueno is now doing some back peddling since he didn't do any research before spouting off about non-profits, just making enough to break even.
I worked for a NON-PROFIT private school (501c3) for 24 years, grades 1-12. They currently have $200,000,000 in endowment. A little better than break even. Of course, the money mostly comes from donations and investments. Operational excess goes to the next year's budget. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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The hair splitter actually said:
Quote: | nearly all the recent major road projects, and those currently underway in the DC area, are toll roads financed by, constructed by, and operated by private companies. Far from impeding the free movement of people, they show every sign of doing the reverse. Expect more of this across the country. |
Of course this is the man who invented 50 million deaths from malaria to blame on environmentalists, and says that calling concerned parties in Richmond bank robbers is not dismissing their concerns. Ayn Rand would be so proud.
It's called the mrgybe bounce. Outlandish claim, etc. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone can translate this.........
mrgybe wrote: | nearly all the recent major road projects, and those currently underway in the DC area, are toll roads financed by, constructed by, and operated by private companies. Far from impeding the free movement of people, they show every sign of doing the reverse. |
...into this........
mac wrote: | After claiming that the private sector will solve the transportation problems in the United States, mrgybe etc........ |
...please let J K Rowling know. She needs fantasy writers to help with her next book.
Splitting hairs!! As I said........quite astonishing. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 2807
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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techno900 wrote: | Pueno is now doing some back peddling since he didn't do any research before spouting off about non-profits, just making enough to break even.
I worked for a NON-PROFIT private school (501c3) for 24 years, grades 1-12. They currently have $200,000,000 in endowment. A little better than break even. Of course, the money mostly comes from donations and investments. Operational excess goes to the next year's budget. |
An endowment is not income.
Harvard has a $32 BILLION endowment.
So what?
A non profit can collect excess income to use for development and expansion. It cannot spend that excess on bonuses, gifts, perks, etc.
A for-profit can distribute its excess wealth to its owners. A non-profit cannot.
Go back to Mr. G's original point -- that there was something wrong with the PO, Medicare, SS, etc., because they're non-profits in the red.
Work on that one.
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Quite astonishing. He says "nearly all" he says "expect this elsewhere" he says "increasing mobility" for a niche application. Then he says it is unfair to parody his exaggerations. I think he may be typing in English but thinking in Croatian. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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The difference between successful non-profits and unsuccessful non-profits is management. They are all businesses, even though many don't think so. Those that don't thinks so are those that often see red.
Our government is a non-profit, but sometimes not too business like. The problem is, most will stay in their jobs regardless of their ineptitude. In real life, non-profits die when resources dry up. Our government keeps right on rolling because they have a never ending supply of $ to keep them moving, regardless of their lack of management/business skills - it's our tax dollars(and borrowed $). They don't have to be good managers, and most voters seem to be blind to their mismanagement. Yes, on both sides of the party lines.
We need government, and no conservative has ever said we don't, but conservatives think we deserve better leaders/managers (fewer too), especially when their ineptitude is often displayed.
The house of cards will fall one day unless we wise up.
pueno said: Quote: | By definition, non profits do not operate in the black. At best, they break even. |
It's good to know that you finally cleared up this statement. |
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