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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5345

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonsense on tort reform. there have been several efforts, sponsored by GOP legislators, to provide so-called tort relief. They haven't budged the dial. It's a minor cost used to justify behavior that generates greater fees. The problem is the fee for service system. Obamacare does a little, not enough, about that.

My brother, with no college degree and minimal understanding of medical procedures, has made big money selling medical equipment. Profit rates at drug companies have run over 30% in a year. Those are cost centers. Tell me again how competition will fix them.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tell me again how competition will fix them.


Open the prescription drug market to world wide competition. Only the US is getting rapped by drug prices.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac..disagree on tort reform. Studies have addressed the actual cost of litigation, awards and insurance but do not adequately address defensive medicine.

I know how often my physician friends and family talk about how the legal environment affects their practices An excuse to make more money??? That's "nonsense".
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3441

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are right. The link was posted by nw . thanks for finally pointing that out. my apologies for the wrong attribution.
now how about the fact that your posts directed at me almost always begin with an insult?
NW and I agree at times, other times we don't.
He does not address me in that fashion so I enjoy our discussion.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Nonsense on tort reform. there have been several efforts, sponsored by GOP legislators, to provide so-called tort relief. They haven't budged the dial. It's a minor cost used to justify behavior that generates greater fees. The problem is the fee for service system. Obamacare does a little, not enough, about that.

My brother, with no college degree and minimal understanding of medical procedures, has made big money selling medical equipment. Profit rates at drug companies have run over 30% in a year. Those are cost centers. Tell me again how competition will fix them.


There is obviously not enough competition w/in the medical equipment manufactures as well.
Every example that you can come with, will just be another area that needs more competition.
But if you have no faith in the free market system, then you will never trust it, you will only trust the government, good luck with that.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5881

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why weren't Republicans able to sell tort reform? It's not necessarily a bad idea, and it had the potential to be a productive element of change, but where were the bulk of other ideas coming from Republicans addressing health care reform? In reality, they weren't really serious and didn't have the vision to tackle the problem. Overall, they came to the table with virtually nothing to offer. They couldn't even embrace a conservative based plan drafted by the Heritage Foundation that they once supported. In the end, their hate for President Obama was their guiding light, so they were totally committed to stifling any reform. Even today Republicans could introduce tort reform legislation, but they won't because it would signal an acceptance of the ACA. The truth is so telling.

Last edited by swchandler on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5881

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30, why isn't private industry entering the competition for all the lucrative business opportunities out there? Where are all the "job creators"? Lots of folks with tons of money, so what's the problem?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
NW30, why isn't private industry entering the competition for all the lucrative business opportunities out there? Where are all the "job creators"? Lots of folks with tons of money, so what's the problem?

Well nobody new is going to jump in now, what would be the point?
They'd get nothing but a mountain of regulations, requirements, and currently unknown taxes, that would making jumping into the medical industry stupid in this current enviornment.
In fact, that is one of the main reasons why we are having a hard time getting any new businesses going in any field.
Getting rid of Obamacare would be the first step in unleashing the private sector, until then, the government wins, and the private sector looses.

Being a Verizon user and a Google user, I'm figuring that the government knows quit a bit about me, mainly being which conservative groups I may have, or not have, contributed to or joined.
National security my ass.
I just can't wait until the IRS has my medical records as well.
THE IRS !!!!!!!!!! My god.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5345

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB--I apologize for the rudeness of my term nonsense, but we have tried Tort reform in California. A look at it from the perspective of attorney's who are worried about patients being left out:


Quote:
The Golden Standard? California as a Model for National Medical Malpractice Tort Reform

Richard E. Custin

University of San Diego- School of Business Administration

Sherry Tehrani

Independent

January 1, 2012

Journal of Law, Business & Ethics, 18 JLBUSETH 91, 2012

Abstract:
With the national focus on medical malpractice tort reform, California is regarded as the “model for medical liability reform.” But for injured patients, California is a less than hospitable legal forum. In 1975, the California legislature passed the Medical Injury Compensation Reform Act (MICRA), which limits non-economic damages and attorney fees, abrogates the collateral source rule, requires 90 day notice to physicians of a claim, and promotes annuity like periodic payments to injured plaintiffs. MICRA legislation has remained unchanged since 1975 and -- most importantly -- the limitation on non-economic damages has never been indexed for inflation or otherwise adjusted. This assault on injured parties has been further compounded by a wave of physicians refusing to treat patients absent “consent” to arbitration of all claims made by a patient. The result is a California model that would serve as the ultimate patient injustice were it adopted nationwide. Attempts are now underway to preempt state medical malpractice laws and adopt a national standard that is strikingly similar to California's legislation. In this paper, we review California's limit on medical malpractice damages and enforcement of mandatory arbitration, focusing on its policy effects on patient recourse and its influence on the recent Help Efficient, Accessible, Low-Cost, Timely Healthcare (HEALTH) Act of 2011


It didn't move the dial in California appreciably. We didn't, before the ACA, have a competitive health care system in the United States. It is sad that too few of the conservatives actually understand what barriers there were to competitiveness, or how difficult it is in a system like health care. We have a cartelized and brokered system, with pay for services as the fundamental financial cornerstone. So the key is to get a given service to be eligible for reimbursement--whether under Medicare or an employer paid insurance system. At that point, the tendency of the medical system is to go for the service. The cost-effectiveness questions of the given service are left out of the equation because the costs are hidden, that is, paid by an insurer. Such costs reassure a doctor who is not sure, the hospital's attorneys, who are concerned about liability, and most patients. The abuse of this system is well documented. Obama care neither caused this nor fixed it--but has more elements in it to address using market forces than anything that was current. The reason? The idea was cooked up by conservatives at the Heritage Foundation. It was a conservative idea until the conservatives needed a club to bash Obama with.

Tort reform won't completely resolve even the concerns of hospital lawyers, much less the rest of the decision makers in health care costs.

Pharmaceuticals are a particularly dysfunctional element, based on the attributes of patent laws and the Bush Medicare deal which ensured them a non-competitive market. Only too bizarre to blame it on Obama.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course tort reform would not be a cure all. However, EVERY single element in health care needs to be addressed to reduce costs.

Colorado enacted tort reform about 15 years ago...a cap on non economic damages. My wife's insurance dropped by over 50 percent from what it was prior to tort reform. Even more if you factor inflation. I knew a OBGYN who had a 6 figure insurance bill. He quit delivering babies (only GYN) and the rates dropped to a fraction of what they were. Large awards for pain and suffering for parents of bad babies were driving physicians away from OB.

How much money did John Edwards make from suing Doctors? These costs are real. If your want to assign greed maybe some of these lawyers should be in the cross hairs.
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