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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 663
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
youwindsurf wrote:
Conservative politicians want to retain the status quo. It works for their base, the 1%. Any type of reform, be it health care or immigration, has the potential to upset the status quo. That is why, other than attempting to reduce government spending, Conservatives have no agenda to address the issues that need attention.

Here is just one example of the ridiculous nature of the situation:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/08/1290548/-Boehner-says-House-can-t-pass-immigration-reform-because-Obama-is-mean

House Speaker John Boehner blames President Barack Obama for Congress’s inability to pass an immigration reform bill, saying that it’s a lack of trust in the president that keeps members of the GOP from getting it done.

“The American people want us to deal with immigration reform,” Boehner said on Fox News’s “Kelly File” on Monday. “I’ve tried to get the House to move on this now for the last 15 or 16 months. But every time the president ignores the law, like the 38 times he has on Obamacare, our members look up and go, ‘Wait a minute: You can’t have immigration reform without strong border security and internal enforcement, how can we trust the president to actually obey the law and enforce the law that we would write?’”


If their base were the 1%, then Obama should have won by 99%. You forget that Obama has hosted over 1000 $60,000 a plate, rubber chicken dinners for his oligarch amigos.


Let me rephrase:

Conservative politicians want to retain the status quo. Any type of reform, be it health care or immigration, has the potential to upset the status quo. That is why, other than attempting to reduce government spending, Conservatives have no agenda to address the issues that need attention.

Now perhaps you can address the real issue as to why conservatives have no agenda for reform or problem solving other than to reduce the size of government.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 999

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
If the average number of oligarchs at each dinner was Twenty, he would have raised 1.2mil per meal . A thousand of those would have raised $1.2 billion.

He may have found a way to pay off the national debt.

Of course he has had to go to dinner with oligarchs five nights a week for four years.


LOL! and he can still get into his "skinny jeans" too.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5351

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The things that you just don't read inside the bubble. The Congressional Budget Office reports that Obama care will cost less, not more, than originally predicted. Premiums are lower, not higher. Cherry picking of odd facts out of context will continue--even now, mrgybe, Bard and Nit wit are preparing rebuttals--based on--throwing rocks, not in the ocean, but at Obama.

Here's a gloat:

Quote:
CBO: Obamacare will have lower premiums, insure more, and cost government less than projected

by Joan McCarter

That whole "Obamacare is doomed to fail" line from Republicans is getting harder and harder to defend by the day. A new report from the Congressional Budget Office makes their protestations sound even more ridiculous. The top line finding:

Relative to their previous projections made in February 2014, CBO and JCT now estimate that the ACA’s coverage provisions will result in lower net costs to the federal government: The agencies currently project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, $104 billion less than the previous projections.

The other good news:

Health insurance premiums are lower than CBO originally projected, saving the government $190 billion;

"12 million more nonelderly people will have health insurance in 2014 than would have had it in the absence of the ACA;"

The number of uninsured will fall to 30 million by 2017 and will remain there through 2024, absent other reforms;

The projection made originally in 2012 that the ACA would reduce the deficit is still valid, and deficit reduction is greater than anticipated two years ago.
Additionally, they project that premiums will rise only "slightly" in 2015, by about $100 for the mid-level plans that have proven to be the most popular in the exchanges. They also say that those premium hikes will be caused more by increasing health care costs than the having more and sicker people—those with pre-existing conditions—now in the risk pool.

Lower premiums, 12 million more people insured, lower costs to the government and further deficit reduction. Try repealing all that, Republicans.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/16/are-the-cbo-s-new-cost-projections-the-obamacare-win-that-wasn-t.html
Quote:
Although the new CBO numbers should be encouraging to anyone who wants every American to have access to affordable health coverage, they are not definitive proof that Obamacare isn’t as costly as the law’s biggest detractors have warned.

People are reading “way too much into this report,” said Michael Tanner, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. “What’s interesting is when, a couple of months ago, some numbers came out that looked bad [for Obamacare], Republicans loved CBO and the Democrats said, ‘Oh, you can’t pay any attention to them,’ and now it’s the other way around.”

“If it was [projected to cost] a hundred million more, I know Republicans would be all excited about that and the Democrats would be depressed, but that wouldn’t mean anything either…. In the end, [Obamacare] is still going to cost a very big number, and no one knows exactly what that number is, because we’re looking 10 years into the future.”

Ed Haislmaier, a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, warned that “people on both sides of this, with CBO reports, have to be careful not to over-interpret them.”

For the report to really mean anything, Haislmaier said, “You’d probably have to double that [$100 million decrease in cost].”

“They initially overestimated the premium costs, basically. Here’s why supporters shouldn’t get over-enthused…. Premiums are lower than projected because CBO made a mistake in projecting.”
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5351

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it. The Republicans are not worried that the American public will remember that they lied to them about how many people would be covered, how many would lose their coverage, how many jobs the ACA would cost, or anything else--all they care about is whether the lies worked. Barnum must be the patron saint of the GOP.

Interesting bit of selective citation by Techno--he left this out:

Quote:
The main reason for the CBO’s revision is that the average annual premium for the health-care exchanges’ Silver plan—the midlevel option the CBO used as a benchmark—is, at $4,400, 15 percent lower than its estimate from four years ago.


Hmm, first attempts by the Federal government to control costs, and let's not look at 15% lower, that might be evidence that, beyond spin, the approach of using Federal purchasing power to get economies of scale, might be working.

Don't worry--the GOP spin is that it is not perfect, so let's repeal it.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is that no one knows how this thing will turn out, and anyone putting much faith in the CBO is a fool, in my opinion. There are just too many variables, many of which have yet to be engaged and or discovered.

When it comes to telling lies about Obamacare, you might be on thin ice when you point your finger at the Republicans.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2703

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

When it comes to telling lies about Obamacare, you might be on thin ice when you point your finger at the Republicans.

Righto. Wouldn't want those Dems lying about "death panels" again.
.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3450

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you talk about Ocare lies by the GOP, you are standing on solid ground.
Others may have lied also, but the GOP version is a tissue of fabrications and that will continue.
They think conservatives are easily fooled and seem to be correct.
This wasn't always the case.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 663
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's have some fun and share some of those Republican lies.

I'll go first:

"Rick and Karen Santorum claimed that fears about how the Affordable Care Act would affect their youngest daughter’s medical condition inspired them to embark on their campaign for the presidency and suggested that the law would ration care to sicker or disabled Americans. “What did it for me was Obamacare,” Karen said in explaining her support for Rick’s decision to pursue the White House on Glenn Beck’s show. “Because we have as you know a little angel, little Bella, special needs little girl, and when Obamacare passed, that was it, that put the fire in my belly.” Rick agreed, arguing that the law would ration care based on the “usefulness” of an individual:

BECK: How much of a danger are the most vulnerable in our society if Obamacare actually kicks in and the whole bell curve…

R. SANTORUM: It’s all about utilization, right? It’s all about how do we best allocate resources where they are most effectively used? [...] Government allocating resources best on how to get the best bang for your dollars and it’s all about utility. It’s all about the usefulness of the person to society, instead of the dignity of every human life and the opportunity for people who love and care for people to give them the best possibility to have the best possible life.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/24/432239/rick-santorum-americans-with-special-needs-wont-survive-under-obamas-health-reform/

Next?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5351

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just go back a few pages and read some of mrgybe's sputtering accusations. Then give me one coherent bill proposed by Republican's to make the ACA better, and show me how the Democrats blocked it.

Obama spun the numbers. A far different matter than the systematic and wholesale lies paid for by the Koch empire--which want to put Republicans back in control to make more money selling coal and oil. How much money do they have in the proposed pipeline, and how eager are the Republicans to do their bidding? And how many people are like Bard--think that they hate oligarch's, but are clueless as to how the Republicans do their bidding.
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