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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1614
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
What's false about what I wrote?

And, Paul Ryan, today called for "repeal" of the ACA not "reform"...his own words! The Republicans controlled the House of Representatives, where most domestic policy bills are drafted, for 12 years from the mid-nineties until 2007. Six years of that with a Republican President. Yet, can anyone show me a health care plan (or insurance reform plan) that was sponsored by that party during all that time? (The Heritage plan...basically the ACA was never drafted by Congress...so that doesn't count!)

Do you seriously think that when PR says "repeal", what he really wants is to go back to the way is was without any kind of reform?
Do you really think that the GOP was totally satisfied with the way it used to be?
That's the flaw in what you are insinuating, as well as what BHO was with his end zone dance today. It's a false premise.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5745

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice try NW30, but no way can I believe what you're saying. Republicans don't have a credible plan to "reform" anything about the healthcare system. Their efforts have been a blind wish to kill health reform. Back in 2009, their only plan was to slow things down enough, so that nothing meaningful could happen. coboardhead is absolutely right, Republicans don't have a history to show that they had any kind of plan to reform healthcare. Nothing.

"Do you really think that the GOP was totally satisfied with the way it used to be?"

Frankly, yes. But, they can't simply put the genie back into the bottle. They've had 4 years to reform the ACA, and what do they have to show for it? Nothing but futile efforts to "repeal" the ACA in its entirely. You know, wipe the law off the books. If you don't agree, I would like to see you offer some solid proof otherwise.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2615

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Republicans don't have a credible plan to "reform" anything about the healthcare system. Their efforts have been a blind wish to kill health reform.

Disagree. Republicans don't really care about healthcare reform one way or the other. After all, O-care was originally designed by them. and Romney's Massachusetts plan (which is successful) is the prototype for O-care.

Instead, Republicans want to deny Obama and the Democrats credit for a success of any kind. That the success is healthcare reform is irrelevant -- it could be anything. (Remember how they howled that Bush should receive credit for getting bin Laden?)

Republicans are trying to rewrite history while it's happening... and failing at it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13997

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
10 to a room???

Ah, yes ... like my last (and I mean LAST!) VA pre- and post-surg ward. Hotter than hell even in the Seattle winter, no bath/showers available, sweating all night, 20 patients and visitors yakking all day and evening, cell phones ringing all night, nurses too busy and too distracted by the holidays to get me out of bed for several days post-op, me trying through the fog of morphine and sleep deprivation to protect myself from central nervous system overdoses from incompetent nurses, no response when I had to call for help due to uncontrolled dry heaving, nurses refusing to act when my bladder filled WAY beyond normal capacity when my catheter repeatedly plugged after bladder surgery, ZERO wound care or cleaning for 7 days following major open abdominal surgery, and on and on and on (I posted pages like that in other forums after leaving the hospital). My wife wandered around the hospital 'til she found an office fan, took it, and set it next to me to drop the heat index from something like 90 to 88. The place felt like Andersonville revisited in many ways. My surgeon was alarmed because I was getting no sleep and no walking, both necessary for recovery. He said it was the norm there, but that he was powerless to improve it; many surgeons had tried. All he could do was override the head nurse and order me into a private ward reserved for VIPs.

Is that Obamacare circa 2020? It seems to be good enough for our veterans now, so why not for everyone else under a system modeled in part after the VA system?

Few of you pie-eyed, bleeding heart ACA supporters have a clue what a nightmare you voted for and/or support. I glad as hell I'm not facing a lifetime of it, as many of you and most of your kids are if saner, less socialist heads don't prevail. Senate Dems facing an election are bailing from both Obamacare and Obama at warp speed; let's hope it's not quite fast enough for November.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2615

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:

Few of you pie-eyed, bleeding heart ACA supporters have a clue what a nightmare you voted for and/or support.

Geez, Mikey. You're starting to sound like Reagan when he cautioned that Medicare would be the end of freedom and liberty in America.

Are you suffering from Alzheimer's, too?
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1930
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
SNIP
My wife says the biggest single hassle was calculating the deduction WA residents get for retail goods sales taxes we paid. The IRS look-up chart gives us $1,400; my wife clearly documented over $6,000. That difference put a grand in our pocket after taxes. Not a bad day's after-taxes pay for a retired person.


The IRS gives you a choice: save time and take the fixed credit or take whatever time you need to research and calculate actual state sales tax paid.

If you knew you were going to research and calculate for the actual sales tax paid but failed to track it during the year, you have only yourself to blame. Even bookkeepers with basic skill know better than to try to reconstruct 12 months of spending and still make it home on time for dinner. On the other hand, if you didn't know about it, well, blame yourself again, then live and learn.

It's actually as easy as keeping a mileage log. Just record the sales tax into a spreadsheet each day you pay it and let the spreadsheet auto-update your subtotals. That's what I do, and then simply type the total into the box. Cha-ching!

=SUM(C1-C*), I think.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13997

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
And, Paul Ryan, today called for "repeal" of the ACA not "reform"...his own words!

Yet it's OK that Obama has "repealed" our previous health care and insurance programs and has stated his intention to proceed even further to full single-payer, government-run health care, defined in the dictionary as socialized medicine. The ACA costs at least $2T and has achieved damned near nothing on a national scale relative to even a small fraction of that expense; no one believes it would have cost that much to reform the extant system, as the GOP has proposed over and over and over.

coboardhead wrote:
can anyone show me a health care plan (or insurance reform plan) that was sponsored by that party during all that time?

Check their website for one of many examples. And tell us why Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and Sebelius publicly refused to even look at any GOP proposal, let alone vote on them after House approval. That is absolutely abominable, and all by itself makes the entire party and all its supporters look like criminals.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1614
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Nice try NW30, but no way can I believe what you're saying. Republicans don't have a credible plan to "reform" anything about the healthcare system. Their efforts have been a blind wish to kill health reform. Back in 2009, their only plan was to slow things down enough, so that nothing meaningful could happen. coboardhead is absolutely right, Republicans don't have a history to show that they had any kind of plan to reform healthcare. Nothing.

"Do you really think that the GOP was totally satisfied with the way it used to be?"

Frankly, yes. But, they can't simply put the genie back into the bottle. They've had 4 years to reform the ACA, and what do they have to show for it? Nothing but futile efforts to "repeal" the ACA in its entirely. You know, wipe the law off the books. If you don't agree, I would like to see you offer some solid proof otherwise.

Iso's response just before this answeres some of your contentions here, read it.
But as to your last request, how about you show me some solid proof that there has been any member of the house, on the GOP side, that has said that nothing needs to be done, it is perfect in every way.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5745

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You believe isobars' pantload of nonsense? Don't be a fool. Republicans were only responding because the Democrats had the ultimate power to get things moving and make something happen. Republicans had nothing before that to show that they had a sound plan. Absolutely nothing.

I think that you're forgetting that when the Democrats in Congress started to legislate healthcare reform, the Heritage plan wasn't what they started with, because a single payer or Medicare type of plan was potentially on the table. It was through a process of looking for Republican support that the Heritage plan was pushed to the forefront. But at every turn, the Republicans just crapped on anything and everything that the Democrats tried to do to garner their support. What did the Republicans offer up? Tort reform and the bogus idea insurance across state lines. The latter is was laughable in view of their usual undying support for states' rights. Check it out.

When it comes down to it, you have nothing credible to offer. Fake Republican facts are meaningless.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3311

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

House GOP hear hear, if anyone here thinks you should do anything about health reform in America signal that thought by proposing legislation sometime in the last thirty years.
No one? Nobody at all?
OK partisans you will have to pretend on our behalf.
Just say none of us ACTUALLy said we thought it was perfect. That will fool em.
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