Pipe dream? Obamacare

[mac]

Techno--Chandler has made another important point about the value of the approach in the ACA--preventative care. The strictly profit based business model has been very profitable, for some, with a pay for service approach. So the struggle has been to get Medicare and/or a particular insurer to agree to pay for certain procedures. The more expensive, the more profitable. The ACA begins to change that culture--most of the things cited by Chandler are preventative, and reduce cost over the long term.

You are mis-informed on Medicare. While most people, even completely uninformed Tea Baggers (keep your government hands off my Medicare posters) think that they have paid for Medicare, they haven't. Medicare is, in fact, an entitlement program where users have not paid enough, much less their fair share. It has to be trimmed, or fees need to be increased. Neither party has shown much courage. Obama, on the other hand, was willing to put it on the table for discussion--much to the dismay of the majority of Democrats. The idea that he is a socialist is the working of drug and power addled minds.

[coboardhead]

SWC..the point I was trying to make on individual plans vs employer plans in the ACA is that the individual plans do not provide discounts for good health...with the exception for allowing higher premiums for smokers. So, I can keep my weight down, cholesterol in check, blood pressure and pulse low and it saves me nothing on premiums. If I buy my insurance as an employer through a group policy, I can receive a better premium if I have a "wellness" program. This is a major flaw in the legislation. While preventative care is encouraged, health is not!

Techno...I agree higher deductibles may encourage folks to schedule medical care ie wait till next year in some cases or jump the gun on surgeries, which may, or may not, be necessary.

[keycocker]

Techno,
In twenty years will conservatives be a saying exactly the same thing about the ACA? It was insurance, no load on others, I had to pay it all this time, now I get it subsidized since I have more medical bills in my old age.

There was a lot of opposition to Medicare at first.Both parties tried to make it work over time, unlike the ACA.

[mac]

Excellent points CB. Of course the ACA has flaws--all human endeavors do. We no longer sail teak booms, polypro boards, or blue noodle masts. But it was a hell of a good start.

[coboardhead]

Mac

As we have discussed before, we have both been involved with the drafting of laws or regulations. I am no idealist. I recognize that no law can possibly be without flaws. However, sometimes we have no options but to move forward. That is why I continue to support a flawed plan.

What is disturbing to me is that so many seem to have this ideal that government can create something that is perfect...and if they do not, it is a failure. This distracts us from real solutions that need to evolve. Anyone who believes that we can get it completely right the first time has no experience in the real world of drafting complicated legislation.

I sometimes wonder if many are seeking the failure!

[nw30]

That is only because most of us, on the right, like to compare a governmental effort at success (w/ their programs), to a like effort done by the independent private sector.
The bar is set very high for the government's efforts to succeed as compared to them, hence the frustration.

[coboardhead]

NW

Do you consider our previous healthcare system successful? If so, by what metrics?

[isobars]

[uwindsurf]

Counter Point:

Health care in the United States is provided by many distinct organizations. Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by private sector businesses. 62% of the hospitals are non-profit, 20% are government owned, 18% are for-profit.

60–65% of healthcare provision and spending comes from programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the Children's Health Insurance Program, and the Veterans Health Administration. Most of the population under 67 is insured by their or a family member's employer, some buy health insurance on their own, and the remainder are uninsured. Health insurance for public sector employees is primarily provided by the government.

The United States life expectancy of 78.4 years at birth, up from 75.2 years in 1990, ranks it 50th among 221 nations, and 27th out of the 34 industrialized OECD countries, down from 20th in 1990. Of 17 high-income countries studied by the National Institutes of Health in 2013, the United States had the highest or near-highest prevalence of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, homicides, and disability. Together, such issues place the U.S. at the bottom of the list for life expectancy. On average, a U.S. male can be expected to live almost four fewer years than those in the top-ranked country.

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the United States spent more on health care per capita ($8,608), and more on health care as percentage of its GDP (17.2%), than any other nation in 2011. The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries, and notes U.S. care costs the most. In a 2013 Bloomberg ranking of nations with the most efficient health care systems, the United States ranks 46th among the 48 countries included in the study.

The U.S. Census Bureau reported that 49.9 million residents, 16.3% of the population, were uninsured in 2010 (up from 49.0 million residents, 16.1% of the population, in 2009). A 2004 Institute of Medicine (IOM) report said: "The United States is among the few industrialized nations in the world that does not guarantee access to health care for its population." A 2004 OECD report said: "With the exception of Mexico, Turkey, and the United States, all OECD countries had achieved universal or near-universal (at least 98.4% insured) coverage of their populations by 1990." Recent evidence demonstrates that lack of health insurance causes some 45,000 to 48,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. In 2007, 62.1% of filers for bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses. A 2013 study found that about 25% of all senior citizens declare bankruptcy due to medical expenses, and 43% are forced to mortgage or sell their primary residence.

Wikipedia.

[KGB-NP]

Sitting waiting for doctor in clinic. 15 minutes of sitting in waiting room and now in examination room. I'm having my sore throat checked so it doesn't turn to strep. Yup, this Canadian socialized medicine sure is aweful.

Moo