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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13778

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
I don't feel that one's health should be a product of their wealth.

Your constitution is different from ours. It's not about how one feels here, but about the law, and this particular law was passed under false pretenses and promises. Besides, your feelings, extended, would imply that everyone deserves the same amount of stuff, which is communism, which fails. And the list above shows just a few of the reasons why Ocare is a step in the wrong direction.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1530
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
I don't feel that one's health should be a product of their wealth.


How about housing, the way you house yourself can directly effect your health. Should we all have equal housing which wouldn't be a result from your wealth?

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple answer: Nope

Questions:

What's your's and probably just about everyone's most important asset?

Is there a humanitarian aspect regarding health that shouldn't just be reserved for poor children in Africa?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3950

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
reinerehlers wrote:
I don't feel that one's health should be a product of their wealth.


How about housing, the way you house yourself can directly effect your health. Should we all have equal housing which wouldn't be a result from your wealth?


I was a young boy driving through the inner city with my father one day. I question him, "why don't the people in this neighborhood just clean up the trash in their yards and buy a can of paint and paint their homes.

He said "son, that's not how things work"... meanwhile, I never met a guy on welfare who didn't have a flat screen TV and a cell phone. Yet I know many Mexican hard working laborers who have neither.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3201

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard is right. Since used flat screens became a 20 dollar item many poor folks have them.
I see working ones in the for free section of Craigslist.
One of my no politics friends who has sec 8 homes is very fond of offering conservatives a chance to tour the projects and see welfare folks living in the lap of luxury and safety.
I took the tour.
it is a sobering experience.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other day a young man and his father were out driving in their Bentley GT. They were on their way to the stables where they house his father's gift to him, his beautiful horse to engage in weekly polo matches. It would be his last chance to visit before heading off to Cambridge to finish off his MBA degree. On the way there they took a different route through a picturesque community of quaint but perfectly manicured homes to admire the pride people took in decorating their homes for Christmas. The father raised his Rolex clad arm, extended his finger and pointed at one house in particular and said, "Could you imagine living like that? Why can't these people just work a little harder?" The house he was pointing at....it was just like yours and mine.

It's all relative............ So much of it depends on pshycology, opportunities, and how you were raised. Count your blessing your not one of those living in poverty and you have health care. On the other hand, I've noticed that many make similiar types of comments about very wealthy people. I know many people who are super wealthy, and most of them are awesome people who are doing really great things with their time and wealth.

Perhaps attitudes need to change before the situation can be improved, but not by hand outs either, but by providing opportunities, counselling, mentoring etc....."teaching the man to fish".

Pipe dream? Maybe? You can lead a horse to water, but.......

The biggest problem isn't money, it's time! If you have children you know how many times you have to tell them just to turn off the lights, etc. ....simple things. Take all that nurturing, child rearing, love and add in some abuse whether mental or physical, and you have a problem almost impossible to solve without a huge investment of time and money. The simple solution seems to just shrug and say, "screw it, not my problem"
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2571

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
The other day a young man and his father were out driving in their Bentley GT. They were on their way to the stables where they house his father's gift to him, his beautiful horse to engage in weekly polo matches. It would be his last chance to visit before heading off to Cambridge to finish off his MBA degree. On the way there they took a different route through a picturesque community of quaint but perfectly manicured homes to admire the pride people took in decorating their homes for Christmas. The father raised his Rolex clad arm, extended his finger and pointed at one house in particular and said, "Could you imagine living like that? Why can't these people just work a little harder?"

No kidding? Mitt was back in Massachusetts with his son?
.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, John Kerry.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13778

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.census.gov/hhes/well-being/publications/extended-11.html

shows that Americans living in poverty live far better materially than the average citizen of the vast majority of the world's nations, including the UK.

Yet Obamacare subsidizes families of four earning $96,000 a year, and many states let people buy ANYTHING on their SNAP cards.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5683

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I see you conveniently dodge the issue regarding the ACA's success or failure down the road.

Do you think it will succeed? Is the ACA the program that will solve all of our health care problems, perceived or otherwise?

Just a simple response would be refreshing."


techno900, an impetuous attitude and bogus questions don't really warrant a response. The future will be what it is, but it's my bet is that the ACA, or its newer improved version, will succeed over time. Although I'm sure that you're "high" with all the negative news about the ACA since October 1, I don't doubt that the air will quickly leak out of your tires over time.

Regarding a government incapable of running big programs, I'm waiting to hear your personal nightmare stories about Medicare. And while your at it, let's hear how unhappy you are with Social Security, and how terribly the government "nanny state" has treated you.
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