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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
nw30 wrote:
...this place would have the excitement of a bridge club.

...and that would be too much of an intellectual challenge for you, Mr. Turdy.
.


Remember this answer of yours?
reinerehlers wrote:
If you can't take criticism don't be so willing to dish it out. I've come to expect it, plus I don't think I've made the same comment directed at one single person over and over and over.......
Feel free to share some of your personal experiences, etc. so others can expose your hypocrisies. I like to think I've actually learned a lot on here about some of mine.

Peeuuuno wrote:

And how do you think I can't take it?

"Personal experience -- OK, I have a full-time job, earn almost 6-figures, pay all my taxes without complaint, work happily with college kids to see them exceed (and those are engineering students, Mikey), and serve on FIVE volunteer committees... one being a school committee. Plus I volunteer my time to a local human services non-profit.

Lots of community activism and volunteerism... I guess that brands me as a leftie liberal, because I willingly pay my taxes; contribute heavily to charities, schools, universities, and non-profits; and volunteer to the community.

I also bought over a dozen LED light bulbs ($$) to reduce electric power consumption. Yes, that reduces my monthly expenses, but it also reduces CO2 production."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With the exception of your last sentence, I don't believe a single word of it.
Your elementary responses don't even come close to what you describe you are.
But, being a community activist, as you claim, that would quality you for a run for the presidency.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:

With the exception of your last sentence, I don't believe a single word of it.


Mr. Turdy,

First, I truly could not care less about what you believe or disbelieve.

Second... there is no second. Your response, just like your posts, had ZERO factual or intellectual content. You are illogical. And that is precisely the reason that I respond to you the way I do.

For me, you, and a few others here, are nothing more than idle entertainment. I engage in a stimulus-response exercise..... and you respond in a predictable fashion, over and over and over.

It's kinda like...... push button, observe reaction.
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17750
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think he mean community activist qualifies?

Quote:
being a community activist, as you claim, that would quality you for a run for the presidency.


The man who complains about insults insults, again, the president. But then I guess being a community inactivist makes him unqualitied?
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uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
It's kinda like...... push button, observe reaction.


Thanks for the laugh!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard today about a man who liked his previous health care insurance. He'd had it for 25 years without ever using it. That makes sense only for focused, very low-cost, very limited coverage, catastrophic protection ... which is not an option under Ocare.

I hope he (and coboardhead at 20 years with no claims), are paying cash for their less-than-catastrophic medical care, which can't be neglected for decades.

What's their blood pressure? PSA? Blood glucose? Lipid profile? Liver enzymes? 30 other critical serum and urine parameters? What do their colons look like? Are they getting the proper vaccinations? How's their diet? Do they pay cash to find out why their gut hurts for weeks, whether that mole is benign, or why that pimple on the tip of a finger won't go away?

My medical files are huge compared to those of most people. Is that because I've overused my full coverage insurance because it's there, or because I take exceptional care of the only body I have? Have I been unlucky, or is it because I've played far harder and for far more hours than most people? Is it because they are afraid of and/or mistrust doctors, like many people (the more important my boo-boo, the more research I do to vet or dispute their diagnoses and treatments; anything less is dangerous) ... or is it because I consult doctors whenever an unexplained minor problem lingers too long, I can't explain and fix with certainty a major problem, or a problem inherently and clearly needs medical care? Anything less is risky, maybe even dangerous, IMO.

I STILL find highly dangerous, incompetent doctors, but if I avoid medical care -- claims -- altogether because of that I'd be even deader now than I am.

I'll bet thousands of people every year would not have bothered going to an orthopedic surgeon after my recent injury. After all, I drove home that day pain-free, limped around on it the next day with little pain, could adequately walk pretty well pain-free a week later, and could walk apparently normally within weeks. The only real pain in the whole episode was while trying to walk on the day I blew it out. Any macho -- remember, Spanish for "stupid" -- man would have toughed it out and been sailing within 2-4 weeks, some within days.

And would have regretted it the rest of his life.

Medicare highly restricts the necessary PT rehab already, and will probably limit it much more after Obama gets through gutting it fiscally to help fund Ocare and imposing tighter restrictions with his newly appointed IPAB bean counter knee panels. After all, old people no longer deserve expensive care.

Yeah, but we still vote!
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mogunn



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Medicare highly restricts the necessary PT rehab already

Not really, Mikey. Have you really researched the coverage? Here is what Medicare says about it.
Quote:
What can I do if I need services that will go above the
outpatient therapy cap limits?

You may qualify to get an exception to the therapy cap limits so that Medicare will continue to pay its share for your therapy services after you reach the therapy cap limits. Your therapist must document your need for medically reasonable and necessary services in your medical record and must indicate on your Medicare claim for services above the therapy cap limit that your therapy services are medically reasonable and necessary.
A Medicare contractor will review your medical records to check for medical necessity if you get outpatient therapy services in 2013 higher than these amounts:
• $3,700 for PT and SLP combined • $3,700 for OT
In general, if your therapist provides documentation that your services were medically reasonable and necessary, you won’t have to pay for costs above the $1,900 therapy cap limits. Your therapist must give you a written notice, called an “Advance Beneficiary Notice of Noncoverage” (ABN), before providing services that aren’t medically reasonable and necessary. Medicare doesn’t pay for therapy services that aren’t medically reasonable and necessary. The ABN lets you choose whether or not you want the therapy services. If you choose to get the services, you agree to pay for them if Medicare doesn’t pay. If you get therapy services that aren’t medically reasonable and necessary and Medicare doesn’t pay for them, you won’t have to pay for the services unless an ABN was given to you beforehand.

_________________
mo
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Mo, but, yes ... I went through all that with the insurance beancounters at the big local hospitals, the docs, and the PT/rehab insurance people. That approach is reserved for specific providers at specific locations. I'm using the right provider hospital, but because my PTs work for that hospital at a satellite facility within X miles of the central hospital, I'm out of luck. It's a technicality they've fought for years with no success. Only by accepting lesser PTs* at the central hospital or useless (for multiple reasons including literally crippling delays) VA PT services could I get past the Medicare constraints.

* The bean counters, despite letters from orthopedic surgeons, do not understand the medical differences between any old PT and a PT highly trained and experienced in restoring full function after major joint reconstruction. That difference very often translates to the difference between an athletic outcome and a lifetime of lameness, pain, and repeat surgeries. I'm willing to pay cash, if necessary, for that difference.

My point is that these barriers may dominate our lives if and when our health insurance and health care systems are managed by any non-competitive single source, let alone a bungling, inefficient, remote, purely political bureaucracy like the federal government. If I were willing to trust even my basic mobility, let alone windsurfing, to that scenario, I'd have just had the VA fix and rehab my knee. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I'm very fortunate that the calendar year will break up my PT, effectively doubling my cap for this injury. My PT also trusts me to do my PT on my own, reducing formal treatment in his facility to testing progress and changing my exercises ... a very rigorous year-long ACL reconstruction protocol clearly shown to be necessary. Deviation usually produces dismal results.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's assume, with a straight face, that Obamacare really will increase the number of people with actual health care insurance -- not just Medicaid -- by 30M. Let's even assume Ocare really costs only the estimated 2.6 trillion dollars over the next decade before it morphs, by force, as planned many years ago, into the totally socialized medicine Obama said he wanted within 10-15 years. Let's even ignore -- and I'm choking back tears of laughter and frustration here -- the untold billions spent on failed websites, insurance companies redesigning their entire policy structure then being told by Il Duce that they can fuhgheddaboutit for another year, the lies that may yet neuter the Democrat party, 80M-100M people scrambling for new insurance they can't find, the $740B Medicare heist, the tens of thousands of bureaucrats required to run the system, the insurance company bailouts if they don't make a profit (it's written into Ocare), and SO much more. Chalk all that up to Washington BS and set it aside.

The bottom, optimistic, line is that we have maybe 30M new people covered for something like $260B per year even if we ignore Medicare's 1,000 percent overrun.

Wouldn't it have been incredibly simpler and cheaper to just pass the hat and buy those 30M people the GD insurance, then fix what's actually BROKEN with health care piece by broken piece? 30M people X maybe $5k per head = a paltry $150B per year.

Decimal point rebuttals will go into the bit pit; we're talking concepts here, and RATIONAL numbers will almost certainly expand the cost of Ocare anyway.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
...the untold billions spent on failed websites...

Mikey, imagine Carl Sagan saying: "...billions and billions and billions..."

Wouldn't that make your vitriol, angst, bile, acid, and unbridled O-hate just that much more fun?


.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
...the untold billions spent on failed websites...

Snip


Your deliberate omission of my whole list -- including a very specific and admitted $740B -- illustrates that of all the people here, you are the most dishonest. Is that because you're an outsider who doesn't share the tie that binds us windsurfers?
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