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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prove it like global cooling or is that global warming
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1257
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

youwindsurf wrote:

I found this article enlightening:

http://www.uta.edu/faculty/story/2311/Misc/2013,2,26,MedicalCostsDemandAndGreed.pdf

A cogent argument for single payer -- Medicare for all -- healthcare. Thanks for the link.

_________________
mo
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2344

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
Feel better now?

Get your bulbs where you want. Who cares?

Actually, I should be asking you -- "Feel better now?"

You were snippy and asked for personal info... and I provided some. No surprise, since you have nothing cogent or useful to say, your response was juvenile.

You're as much fun as Mr. Fick-shun. Laughing Laughing Laughing
.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if Joew, Swchandler and I have all made the same observation on different occasions. You can be introspective or respond with the school yard, "I know you are, but what am I?"
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5435

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Actually, I have said before that I would have done much better without SS and Medicare, taking care of my self in a responsible way, both financially and health wise. Many can't or won't do that so government jumps in to assist those in need, like it or not."

"In regards to my previous comments about SS and Medicare, I am not opposed to the taxes or the programs. Again, some of you just make stuff up. All I said is that I could have done better on my own, If it was up to me and not the government. On the other hand, I guess one might assume that I was opposed to the programs and their taxes, but that is not so."


I have to ask techno900, in the first paragraph, why would you make such comments if you could be considered a supporter of both Social Security and Medicare? In the second paragraph, you suggest that I'm just making things up, yet you again point out "that I could have done better on my own, If it was up to me and not the government". The way that I see it, you're clearly suggesting that you wouldn't be a participant in either program if the government wasn't requiring it by law.

Let me ask you this, were you supportive of President Bush's attempt to privatize Social Security? In addition, could you be considered a supporter of Rep. Ryan's attempts to privatize Medicare by making it a voucher program? Let's just make it honest and simple by limiting your response to a yes or no answer.

As a supporter of both Social Security and Medicare, my response to both of the above questions is no.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I don't see the contradiction in my two comments. I understand why SS is in place. Too many US citizens aren't capable or willing to manage their finances well enough to save for retirement, so government sees this as a problem and bingo - SS forces everyone to give a percentage of their income to the government to hold (actually spend), and then hopefully give it back when you retire, assuming they still have some $ at that time. I understand why it happened, and for many it has saved their butts. Personally, I don't like government managing my finances because they are not very good at it.

swchandler said:
Quote:
Let me ask you this, were you supportive of President Bush's attempt to privatize Social Security? In addition, could you be considered a supporter of Rep. Ryan's attempts to privatize Medicare by making it a voucher program? Let's just make it honest and simple by limiting your response to a yes or no answer.


Maybe

Just because one understands how a government program came to be and supports it, doesn't necessarily remove all consideration for something new that could be an improvement. I don't know enough about Bush's and Ryan's plans to pass judgment, but its possible they could have been better than what we are now facing. You may not think so and that is fine with me, but sticking with what we now have for the long term may not be a good idea. Both programs will go bust in the not too distant future. At least Bush and Ryan had plans, I don't recall any liberal plans to solve the problems.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4648

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, not really:

Quote:
Both programs will go bust in the not too distant future. At least Bush and Ryan had plans, I don't recall any liberal plans to solve the problems.


Those pesky facts keep getting in the way. Social Security is ok for now, and would be ok for a much longer period of time if the cut-off point was eliminated. You know, the point at which no more social security taxes are collected. Gives those with high incomes a pass--again. Official Republican Policy, the Laffer curve (all those with high school algebra can now laugh at Reagan.) etc.

Medicare is in trouble--in substantial part due to the pharmaceutical benefit passed by Congress at Bush's request. You know, the measure that shot pharmacy profits for Bush's campaign contributors up to 37% for a while? You must remember those--or maybe you didn't contribute enough.

The Democrats have a plan, that was enacted, called the Affordable Care Act. Has a number of different pilot programs intended to reduce the increasing cost of health care--you know, the trend that threatens Medicare? You remember those, right? The measures that might not work--but that so terrify the Republicans that they will work and lose a generation of voters that they have done everything they could, legal and otherwise, to stop the experiment from even being tried?

You always reveal how poorly read you are, and how when talk radio says jump, you say "How high?"
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5435

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sorry, I don't see the contradiction in my two comments. I understand why SS is in place. Too many US citizens aren't capable or willing to manage their finances well enough to save for retirement, so government sees this as a problem and bingo - SS forces everyone to give a percentage of their income to the government to hold (actually spend), and then hopefully give it back when you retire, assuming they still have some $ at that time. I understand why it happened, and for many it has saved their butts. Personally, I don't like government managing my finances because they are not very good at it."


Come on techno900, your "I don't see the contradiction in my two comments" argument isn't that convincing. Just reading the following two gems that you wrote, says it all.

"...so government sees this as a problem and bingo - SS forces everyone..."

"Personally, I don't like government managing my finances because they are not very good at it."

Am I wrong when I suggested "that you wouldn't be a participant in either program if the government wasn't requiring it by law"? You never touched on that.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3015

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR. You are right about proofs.
I cant prove that God didnt just put all those fossils there to trick us when he created the world just before I was born.
I read the Bible from cover to cover soon after I understood what it was.
It could have been written by God the day before, I cant prove it one way or the other.

I cant prove that the sun is going to come up tommorrow. It has in the past.
Many folks seem to think it will.

I cant even prove that this isnt all a dream.

How bout you? Anything you can prove at all?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1247

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes!.... 'I think therefore I am.'

But, RR, most now prefer, 'I am therefore I THINK!' ( Which usually implies a basic understanding and acceptance of the laws of physics, and hence, reality.)
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