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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead said:
Quote:
I find it ironic that a conservative is touting Medicare and SS as model government programs.

Sorry, I never suggested or said that. Actually, I have said before that I would have done much better without SS and Medicare, taking care of my self in a responsible way, both financially and health wise. Many can't or won't do that so government jumps in to assist those in need, like it or not.

Agreed, our health care system needs a lot of work including finding a solution for those uninsured getting there health care from clinics and emergency rooms, as well as a myriad of other problems.

I just don't think the ACA is THE solution, which is also a belief shared by the majority of our fellow citizens. And you are correct, the right doesn't have a good answer either, but now that everyone's awareness of the problem is significantly heightened, I do think a non-partisan group, with enough time could come up with some programs that get us on the right track without a massive government takeover of our healthcare.

In the past, both parties have been guilty of overspending, but it seems to me that only one party at this point in time is concerned about it and is trying to address the issue. Confronting the deficit problem is a hot potato that no one has been willing to juggle. Now at least, one party has the guts to try and manage the situation, lead by the tea party movement. There are just too many folks with their heads stuck in the sand, and that is scary to me.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno

Take a look at CBO projections of future deficits and spending sometime. ALL of the future growth in spending relative to GDP is due to projected increases in healthcare costs. I have yet to see a tea party proposal that really addresses this.

The ACA, actually does. The CBO projects deficit reductions with the implementation of the ACA because costs will be reduced. We will see...but, the idea is to shift the burden of healthcare throughout the market rather than leave those that cannot obtain insurance to utilize government provided healthcare through emergency rooms or waiting until treatment becomes more complex.

You mentioned you would have done better without Medicare? You once mentioned that you should live well into your nineties with your family history. The numbers, simply, do not support this. The average upper middle class senior utilizes significantly more medical services than they contributed. The healthy elite, such as yourself, who live even longer, will really come out ahead.

http://www.nber.org/digest/sep97/w6013.html
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1356

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead said:
Quote:
You mentioned you would have done better without Medicare? You once mentioned that you should live well into your nineties with your family history. The numbers, simply, do not support this. The average upper middle class senior utilizes significantly more medical services than they contributed. The healthy elite, such as yourself, who live even longer, will really come out ahead.

For the average guy, if they didn't have Medicare and saved for medical emergencies, I would agree, they would likely do a lot better with Medicare. In my case, I don't know how it will turn out, but even with my families longevity history, there has been little in the way of Medicare services, both for me and my parents, which are no longer living. All this doesn't really matter, and I am not opposed to Medicare as long as it doesn't get rationed at some point down the road.

By the way, I don't trust the CBO numbers, for what it's worth.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 335
Location: North Shore High School

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
In the past, both parties have been guilty of overspending, but it seems to me that only one party at this point in time is concerned about it and is trying to address the issue. Confronting the deficit problem is a hot potato that no one has been willing to juggle. Now at least, one party has the guts to try and manage the situation, lead by the tea party movement. There are just too many folks with their heads stuck in the sand, and that is scary to me.


The Tea Party is not interested in reducing the deficit, they are intent on reducing the size of government. If they really wanted to reduce the deficit, they would support tax increases.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3024

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
I was really happy to read Tea literature in those first days when they had no track record.
The Tea Party said they were a new bipartisan group who supports financial good sense.
Are they really a bipartisan group?
They said they would be free of lobbyist money, knowing they were taking money and orders from the Kochs
Now they accept cash from anybody.
Do you know of a single bill they ever introduced to help with the debt?
In a do nothing Congress they are the do absolutely nothing wing.

They did introduce a bill to halt the ACA, knowing that bill would have no effect in that way. Realizing it was a wasted effort, they introduced forty more identical waste of money bills to "halt" the ACA.

Did the shutdown which cost us billions and was never going to affect ACA funding help lead us anywhere?
The GOP says they are leading us toward fiscal responsibility if the Dems would get out of the way.
When that happened in the Bush years the GOP borrowed and spent, setting new records.

Could you give me some idea why the happy talk from the Teas has cost Americans so much money and produced absolutely no results?

Americans who do not listen to Talk have rejected Tea leadership because of the fiscal damage they did to us.
They reject the leadership of people like Cruz because he is deeply untruthful and the other Teas like Bachman because they are unsuited to lead intelligent people and have done nothing but damage our country.

Those who support them have gotten lost in the difference between the things they say, and five years of incompetent reality.

Why did they turned out to be bad government on steroids instead of leading us out of the wilderness? They were bought and paid for by lobbyists in the first days.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13297

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I am not opposed to Medicare as long as it doesn't get rationed at some point down the road.

It already is, and is facing bankruptcy despite paying doctors pennies on the billed dollar. A provider gets paid $5 for an EKG, for example, in at least some states, which largely explains why so many providers no longer accept government insurance.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2206

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
government insurance.
do your rehab doctors accept yours?
_________________
/w\
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 335
Location: North Shore High School

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
techno900 wrote:
I am not opposed to Medicare as long as it doesn't get rationed at some point down the road.

It already is, and is facing bankruptcy despite paying doctors pennies on the billed dollar. A provider gets paid $5 for an EKG, for example, in at least some states, which largely explains why so many providers no longer accept government insurance.


More LATI Da. Where is your source Iso? I bit of the Googley led me to an article from your mothership - Fox News. The article stated "a major insurance company", not Medicare, is paying a doctor $5.00 for an EKG.

Care to admit you are wrong once again?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/01/physicians-obamacare-confession-want-to-keep-your-doctor-but-will-your-doctor/

"One of the major insurance companies is no longer paying me to give flu shots and only pays $5 for an EKG. How many doctors can still work with this reality?"

The reality distortion field is strong within this one.


Last edited by youwindsurf on Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4656

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to be one of the more chilling comments about the warping of reality fields:

Quote:
By the way, I don't trust the CBO numbers, for what it's worth.


Pretty much a bald statement that someone has programmed their mind to reject any factual information that doesn't come from a biased source.

Wow.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3329
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
This has to be one of the more chilling comments about the warping of reality fields:

Quote:
By the way, I don't trust the CBO numbers, for what it's worth.


Pretty much a bald statement that someone has programmed their mind to reject any factual information that doesn't come from a biased source.

Wow.

When one's preferred party is not in power, their trust for non-partisan agencies of the GOVT go out the window....funny . Techno..there are many Americans who lived their whole lives doing jobs that pay very little, but are vital to society...like a high school janitor. These people need Medicare and SS, and there are millions of them...1/3 of seniors receiving Medicare and SS live off SS as a majority of their income. The bottom line is their are millions of Americans who need health insurance who cant afford it,
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