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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1908

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC

I agree with much of your assessment. However, the Administration has been their own worst enemy in the rollout of the program. Having a failed website with no organized backup plan is incompetence or arrogance. True, that things are running more smoothly in state exchanges and this was the initial strategy (thwarted by Republicans).

I am less disturbed by the problems with the rollout than I am with Obama's plan to extend ANY existing policies. Bad idea. This would undermine the whole program.

Techno...yes, this is a "pyramid scheme". All insurance is!
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 474
Location: North Shore High School

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
For those 200 million or so of us who hate the ACA and believe health care and health insurance should be fixed intelligently, this is a comedy of errors beyond belief recognized even by Obama's most ardent news agency and network supporters up to and including the whole left wing alphabet soup.


I am still waiting for you to articulate your intelligent solution to the health care and health insurance problem. Saying "No" and "I hate it" is easy. Proposing solutions requires actual thought.

Come on Dood, dazzle us with your intellect. Based on your own posts, your are smarter than doctors and lawyers. You must be smarter than the average lawmaker.

Iso for Congress - 2014! "He has the Solution" My name is Iso and I approve this message.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone miss an important point with the recent ACA sign up numbers rolled out by the administration and the media?

While the numbers are embarrassingly low, the critical point NOT mentioned for the ACA to work, is that there must be millions of PAYING customers signing up. How many of those that did sign up will be paying for their own insurance?

I would guess that the vast majority that did sign up will be getting subsidies, and that paying customers are far and few between.

You know, I am just trying to get the WHOLE story which was not presented.

SS and Medicare were relatively simple to fund and support. EVERYONE was taxed to pay for the programs that was/is working (no working = no SS or Medicare). While management of any new system can have growing pains, the ACA is completely different and a hundred times more complex. Here, the public is being encouraged by threat of extra "taxes" to replace or buy insurance that they may or may not want or need (actually no different from SS and Medicare). However, the government is depending on private insurance companies to fund the program by charging their customers astronomical prices for a product that should be much cheaper. This has disaster written all over it.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3202

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The differences you mention with this program and SS and Medicare are rooted in socialism.
The other programs are pure socialism.
Ocare attempts to escape from that and use a capitalist method that is much more difficult.
I never supported ACA because the US has a long history of struggling with big programs. History shows that SS and Medicare which were much simpler still struggled for years.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2572

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

While the numbers are embarrassingly low...

And yet, on a percentage basis, the numbers are higher at this point than at the same time during the rollout of RomneyCare.

You remember RomneyCare -- it's the prototype for ObamaCare. RomneyCare is the health care law that's so successful in Massachusetts.

But since that factual data does not support your Obama-hate, let's ignore it.
.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3202

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno does not seem rooted in Obama hate, pueno.
It may be best to speak to each of us based on our real opinions than assigning a group opinion to libs or conservatives.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2572

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Techno does not seem rooted in Obama hate, pueno.
It may be best to speak to each of us based on our real opinions than assigning a group opinion to libs or conservatives.

OK, fair enough.... no opinions. My post should read:

"And yet, on a percentage basis, the numbers are higher at this point than at the same time during the rollout of RomneyCare.

"You remember RomneyCare -- it's the prototype for ObamaCare. RomneyCare is the health care law that's so successful in Massachusetts."

.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13790

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I would guess that the vast majority that did sign up will be getting subsidies, and that paying customers are far and few between.

You know, I am just trying to get the WHOLE story which was not presented.

SS and Medicare were relatively simple to fund and support.

So why are they going bankrupt?

The closest thing you'll find on TV to the whole story is on Fox News, where you will see debates covering both facts and opinions from both sides. So far the ACA doomsayers, including some of the doctors and professors who wrote the law, are being forced by facts to admit the ACA was intended and expressly written to aggressively force young healthy people out of the existing policies they like into the government exchanges to fund the ACA. It's working too well, as so far ten times more of them have lost their insurance than have signed up for the ACA even including the Medicaid enrollees.

No need to guess about the subsidies; the vast majority of enrollments ... a fairly consistent 75% ... are for Medicaid. As if that weren't bad enough, CBS says that's a GOOD thing. I wonder if they thought 9/11 or Clunkers for Clodhoppers (or whatever that fiasco was called) or half the voters being on food stamps are good things. Talk about media bias!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13790

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
True, that things are running more smoothly in state exchanges

Techno...yes, this is a "pyramid scheme". All insurance is!

I don't see legitimate insurance as a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are scams deliberately designed to cheat future enrollees, whereas legitimate insurance -- NOT including subsidies and preexisting condition welfare -- simply spreads costs across willing subscribers on a (fairly) current basis.

State exchanges running smoothly? As of just four days ago, Oregon's self-described national gold standard state exchange had signed up ZERO enrollees. People don't want this damned white elephant any more now than they did when Obama lied to the last Democrat Senator to get it passed by his single vote.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker,

Thanks for the support. I only hate (and that is overstated) many, but not all left wing programs and believes.

My only real point in my last point was that for the ACA to work, there must be millions of paying customers. And knowing how many of those paying customers have signed up is the only pertinent fact, which was omitted.

Now if the number of paying customers falls well short of the projected/needed enrollment, then what? I guess the administration borrows another trillion to pay for the program. Since the left has no issue with borrowing, there shouldn't be a problem, right? There is another option - more taxes.

Now you know why the ship is sinking.

Do any of you think that the insurance companies are going to backtrack and reinstate cancelled insurance without a big bump in cost? Just another political move to redirect blame away from the administration. And only for one year? What does that do other than get past the 2014 elections before the s&#T hits the fan again. Even the House doesn't get it.
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