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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1546

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of you guys need to lighten up, take a deep breath and relax. This is suppose to be enlightening and entertaining and shouldn't generate any increase in blood pressure.

While much of what is posted is beneficial, instructional, entertaining, enlightening & funny, some crosses over to the dark side just a bit. Really, it's not hard to either ignore or understand how some people think and behave and just move on when someone posts something that may be interpreted as demeaning or insensitive.

It seems that half the world is wrapped up in being "disrespected". If you feel good and are secure about yourself, no one can disrespect you.

Life is too short to allow these little things to be upsetting. Hearty debates can be fun, just don't take any of them too seriously.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 602

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never thought this would happen - but I think we saw quite a lot of over-reaction to isobars initial post. I know where it comes from, I've seen iso-troll behavior in the past, but I think he has mellowed down a bit, and actually has made mostly useful comments recently.
isobars wrote:
Unless expensive public agency rescue services or enforced closure laws are at stake, it's nobody's business if we take some measured personal risks.

That depends a lot of where you are. In Massachusetts, there have been quite a few cases where people got ticketed and/or arrested when windsurfing, surfing, or swimming in really windy conditions. After a harbormaster recently kept us from windsurfing in 40-50 knot winds, I did check on his authority. Turned out that in addition to his authority over town landings (which we used), he also has Coast Guard authority on the water. He is responsible for rescues, and did explain that most of the rescue gear had been taken off the water, so I kind-of understood his position.

At least one local sailor did what isobars suggested, and found a different launch spot in a neighboring town. Unfortunately, this was a spot with deeper water that was quite a bit more dangerous than the first spot where we were chased away.
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outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2438

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There really isn't access.....even if you possess greater stoke, creativity, schmoozing ability, or a vastly superior intellect, that just doesn't jibe with the reality that almost an entire state lost beach access.

To atone for my sins on this forum, I'm planning on a Jersey Juice part to be held some windy weekend next summer. Also planning to ask the Chamber of Commerce to consider waiving beach fees for NJ plates. (Even Snooki)

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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

outcast wrote:
There really isn't access.....even if you possess greater stoke, creativity, schmoozing ability, or a vastly superior intellect, that just doesn't jibe with the reality that almost an entire state lost beach access.
...


Make that TWO states: NJ and NY.

Sorry for being repetitive and please forward that to Iso, who's banned me from his screen:

The back story here is that we haven't permanently lost access due to legislation (to the contrary - we have made great strides last year in thanks to some dedicated individuals) but due to a natural disaster.

Whether the temporary ban amounts to Government overreach is debatable, but putting up a fight now when government agencies are focusing their attention on helping the victims, seems spurious.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5574

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. First, I am sorry for the losses you guys suffered in New Jersey; I lived outside of Haddonfield when I was in junior high school and have a deep and abiding affection for New Jersey. Here's hoping you get back on your feet soon. Second, as someone who has worked on access for windsurfing for over 20 years, I recognize that all of our efforts have to work in cooperation, and have to recognize the particular nature of both State law and the nature of emergencies. Certainly governments have the authority to restrict things like access during emergencies. This may well stick in the craw of those who hate government, or are firmly convinced that there is no connection between Sandy and climate change, but it is well established law. Third, each state has at least a slightly different approach to ownership of the tidelands and adjacent fastlands. It's too bad that Mike Fick didn't check a little--it's not hard--see, for an introduction: http://www.njseagrant.org/njcoastalaccess/private_waterfront_landowners/private_landowners.html

So in non-emergencies, the public has a right to use land seaward of the mean high tide line, but must get there on an established access way. Because of the complexity of tides and court cases, it is not always apparent where the high tide line is on a sandy beach. Further complications are added because some New Jersey townships own some beaches, and restrict access, or free access, to residents. All very complicated. My hat is off to locals that work to preserve and enhance access; I've worked with a few of you and your are awesome. And I apologize for the rudeness and lack of understanding of our West Coast troll.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14620

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
I've seen iso-troll behavior in the past

That depends a lot of where you are. In Massachusetts, there have been quite a few cases where people got ticketed and/or arrested when windsurfing, surfing, or swimming in really windy conditions. After a harbormaster recently kept us from windsurfing in 40-50 knot winds, I did check on his authority. Turned out that in addition to his authority over town landings (which we used), he also has Coast Guard authority on the water. He is responsible for rescues, and did explain that most of the rescue gear had been taken off the water, so I kind-of understood his position.

I used that safety/risk argument to persuade the park rangers to let me into a park closed for the winter. It was November, water and air temps were 38-40 degrees, the winds were gale force, and I was sailing alone, and every other launch on that big lake had side-off winds. Their closed park was dead onshore and had the best swell, so when I explained that only there could I do all my sailing within quick drifting distance to shore even if injured or broken down, they gladly handed me the gate key and said, "Have fun, and just leave the key by the gatepost when you're done".

Had a great time.

BTW, you've never seen me troll, not under its classic definition of stating things I don't believe to elicit responses.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14620

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

outcast wrote:
There really isn't access.....even if you possess greater stoke, creativity, schmoozing ability, or a vastly superior intellect, that just doesn't jibe with the reality that almost an entire state lost beach access.

NJ is just one of 50 states, all of which experience various access issues.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1979
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike still doesn't get it, and I for one am guilty of feeding the troll. I will not any longer on this thread.

Again, everyone who suffered loss during what is measured as one of the worst, if not the worst, hurricanes in history deserves nothing more than support. The NJ crew has been doing wonderful things to help clean the coast where that's possible and I am sure the NY and particularly LI crew has been just as productive. Access due to Hurricane Sandy is an important side issue for windsurfers but truly remains a side issue given the totality of destruction.

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