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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14874
Location: on earth
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 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | I guess the information from the guys on the ground in the middle of the fight means nothing.
| Quote: | The security contractors -- Kris (“Tanto”) Paronto, Mark (“Oz”) Geist, and John (“Tig”) Tiegen -- spoke exclusively, and at length, to Fox News about what they saw and did that night. Baier, Fox News’ Chief Political Anchor, asked them about one of the most controversial questions arising from the events in Benghazi: Was help delayed?
Word of the attack on the diplomatic compound reached the CIA annex just after 9:30 p.m. Within five minutes, the security team at the annex was geared up for battle, and ready to move to the compound, a mile away.
“Five minutes, we're ready,” said Paronto, a former Army Ranger. “It was thumbs up, thumbs up, we're ready to go.”
But the team was held back. According to the security operators, they were delayed from responding to the attack by the top CIA officer in Benghazi, whom they refer to only as “Bob.”
“It had probably been 15 minutes I think, and … I just said, ‘Hey, you know, we gotta-- we need to get over there, we're losing the initiative,’” said Tiegen. “And Bob just looks straight at me and said, ‘Stand down, you need to wait.’”
“We're starting to get calls from the State Department guys saying, ‘Hey, we're taking fire, we need you guys here, we need help,’” said Paronto.
After a delay of nearly 30 minutes, the security team headed to the besieged consulate without orders. They asked their CIA superiors to call for armed air support, which never came.
Now, looking back, the security team said they believed that if they had not been delayed for nearly half an hour, or if the air support had come, things might have turned out differently.
“Ambassador Stevens and Sean [Smith], yeah, they would still be alive, my gut is yes,” Paronto said. Tiegen concurred.
“I strongly believe if we'd left immediately, they'd still be alive today,” he added. |
The guys on the ground had no reason to make up stories. You can believe them or not. I do believe them. |
too funny his gut feeling is after the fact... again what if they had even more armed people he did not have a clue at the time it was happening. we again know why armed air support did not come, the military did not obey orders from the sec of Defense.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well, since there was a CIA safe house, with multiple agents and contractors, and your sources were contractors who clearly have an axe to grind, I'm going to go with the CIA operative in charge:
| Quote: | It is the most fateful moment in a movie that purports to present a searingly accurate account of the 2012 attacks that left four Americans dead in Benghazi, Libya: a scene in which the highest-ranking CIA operative at a secret agency compound orders his security team to "stand down" rather than rush off to rescue U.S. diplomats under siege less than a mile away.
According to the officer in charge of the CIA's Benghazi base that night, the scene in the movie is entirely untrue.
"There never was a stand-down order," said the base chief known as Bob, speaking publicly for the first time. "At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart."
Nor, he said, did he say anything that could be "interpreted as equivalent" to an order to stand down. |
Here's the timeline:
| Quote: | 9:40 p.m.: Unidentified gunmen launch an assault on the U.S. diplomatic compound in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, quickly overwhelming the U.S. and Libyan forces who were providing security. Inside the compound, security forces are separated from U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens. U.S. personnel who retreat to another building come under siege for two hours before a CIA security team and some Libyan security forces repel the attackers.
10:30 p.m.: Stevens and State Department information management officer Sean Smith have taken refuge in the main building in the compound, behind a fortified door with metal bars that keeps the attackers from breaking in. But the militants set fire to the building. Within minutes, Stevens and Smith are overwhelmed by smoke.
11 p.m.: A U.S. surveillance drone arrives over Benghazi. Then-Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, meet with President Obama.
1 a.m.: A U.S. rescue team arrives in Benghazi from Tripoli, Libya’s capital. Nearly 30 Americans are rescued from the compound. Shortly thereafter, Stevens is taken to Benghazi Medical Center and pronounced dead on arrival, according to a hospital source. (A Libyan doctor tells the Associated Press that Stevens died of asphyxia, probably caused by smoke inhalation.)
1:45 a.m.: The AP moves a news alert, reporting the death of at least one American in the Benghazi assault.
4 a.m.: Gunmen launch an assault using mortars against the CIA annex. Glen Doherty and Tyrone S. Woods, both former Navy SEALs, are killed. Two other Americans are wounded. |
At some level, we cannot know exactly what happened in the CIA safe house because some of that information is classified. It also seems very clear that the presence of the CIA, in large numbers, in Benghazi was not a secret and may have triggered the attack. Regardless, before an hour was up Stevens had taken shelter but that shelter was not sufficient to protect him. Even the House Republicans failed to find evidence that a military response was delayed.
But if the objective is looking, in not much depth, for scapegoats... |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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mac posted:
| Quote: | | "There never was a stand-down order," said the base chief known as Bob, speaking publicly for the first time. "At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart |
Just might be a "cover your ass" statement. Four others contradict the above.
Believe what you choose and I will do the same. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: |
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This is what Mac does, ignores and tries to discredit the people that were fighting and saving lives. Instead he takes quotes from the same people that were being told to stand down and make sure you have the right outfits on.
They were left to die, and a fabricated lie was told to the American people to protect obama and his pathetic foreign policy.
Whats the old saying....The cover up is worse than the crime.....just ask the rapist bill about that.. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| That whole debate w/in the regime as to which uniform to wear (they changed 4 times!), which took way too much time, is a prime example as to how political correctness can not only cause a critical delay, but can also cost lives. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14874
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | | That whole debate w/in the regime as to which uniform to wear (they changed 4 times!), which took way too much time, is a prime example as to how political correctness can not only cause a critical delay, but can also cost lives. |
wow did you ever have a job where you had to think?
Gee they were ordered by the Sec of defence to respond immediately. They only answer to him and the president. They did not do that and the right wing were in charge of finding out what happened and they did not tell us why within minutes the military did not send troops into the air? Again turning around is no problem if need be or things change.
Next again it is not illegal to change on the plane.
But again seems your brain is just not capable of figuring that out as well as the other right wing. Both took me less than 3 seconds. Is it that all right wingers including the military from every level are that stupid?
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real-human
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mat-ty wrote: | This is what Mac does, ignores and tries to discredit the people that were fighting and saving lives. Instead he takes quotes from the same people that were being told to stand down and make sure you have the right outfits on.
They were left to die, and a fabricated lie was told to the American people to protect obama and his pathetic foreign policy.
Whats the old saying....The cover up is worse than the crime.....just ask the rapist bill about that.. |
please quote from any of the was it 8 right wing partisan investigations specifically your points. Again all the right wingers were interviewed and if they were deemed lying or fabricating well maybe they will not be included. Remember the guy who claimed he was there on Fox and it turned out he was not.
again the investigations were run by your ultra partisans and many times. They did not come to your wacky conclusions and they are as partisan as you... I do not take your word. You are not able to back up your posts as a norm not an exception. again you are an insult to what my family has stood for, every generation of my family has volunteered and served in the military. They did not do it for people like you who do not back up their hate posts like you.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:10 pm Post subject: g |
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| Would one of you rabid righties read through the timeline here: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/10/benghazi-timeline/ from a credible and independent organization, and let me know how Paronto and crew could have made a difference? Precipitous efforts to save the crew in Somalia led to more deaths, and Paronto and his buddies were hired guns, not in charge of security. There were reports of 150 armed men attacking the embassy, with less than 40 at the CIA annex. The compound was on fire about 15 minutes after tha attack was reported, and the first man was already dead. Stevens was killed by that fire. The rescue effort from the annex arrived in 28 minutes after the attack began--apparently before Panetta had even learned of the attack. Exactly what more should who have done? |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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where is the media asking for this?
| Quote: | Nothing — no information, no committee, not even an FBI investigation seems to be enough to
convince Republicans that the Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton is innocent of any crimes. After using $7M of America’s hard-earned tax dollars to find no wrong-doing by Clinton in the Benghazi attacks, the GOP is now just as relentless in trying to find a prosecutable crime for the way Clinton handled her emails while she was Secretary of State. Though, former President George W. Bush reportedly deleted millions of emails, Republicans remain quiet to this day about that. So we clearly have a right wing double standard going on and it’s time to change the rules of the game. It’s time to call out Republicans for the same “criminal” offenses for which they claim Clinton is guilty.
David Brock with Correct The Record previously issued an open letter to GOP headhunter Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC). That’s the same Trey Gowdy who spent two years and most of that $7M trying to unsuccessfully pin Clinton for Benghazi crimes. Turns out Gowdy, who is also spear-heading the Clinton email allegations, has some email issues of his own. Back in 2015, Zaid Jilani with AlterNet reported:
...It's important to note that Gowdy maintains his own domain treygowdy.com. For example, one campaign contact email he used was treygowdy.com. While it's not unusual to maintain such a thing particularly for campaign work, it's not clear that Gowdy utilizes this email solely for political campaign work and not congressional tasks. AlterNet asked Gowdy's office through both a telephone inquiry followed up by an email communication to his press secretary about how he segregates work he conducts through his personal domain vs congressional work. We also inquired about where his personal email server is stored and how it is secured. We also attempted to contact Gowdy campaign manager George Ramsey, but he did not return our phone calls. In 48 hours, the deadline we set, we received no response.
AlterNet, Occupy Democrats, David Brock and a plethora of “inquiring minds” await your answer, Trey. Here is Brock’s full letter to Gowdy:
Dear Chairman Gowdy:
I noted with interest your public demand that Secretary Clinton turn over her personal email server, presumably so that the committee can access some 30,000 Clinton emails deemed to be strictly private and beyond the reach of the government.
This Orwellian demand has no basis in law or precedent. Every government employee decides for themselves what email is work-related and what is strictly private. There is no reason to hold Secretary Clinton to a different standard— except partisan politics.
But since you insist that Clinton’s private email be accessed, I’m writing today to ask you and your staff to abide by the same standard you seek to hold the Secretary to by releasing your own work-related and private email and that of your staff to the public.
While I realize that Congress regularly exempts itself from laws that apply to the executive branch, I believe this action is necessary to ensure public confidence in the fairness and impartiality of your investigation.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
David Brock Correct The Record |
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Manufactured scandals, no matter how much you offend:
| Quote: | OAKLAND -- The mother of U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, who was killed during the 2012 attack in Benghazi, wants Donald Trump's campaign and the Republican Party to stop using her son's name.
Mary F. Commanday, of Oakland, wrote a letter published by The New York Times on Friday pleading with the Republican presidential nominee to refrain from using her son's name during his campaign.
Commanday said she was motivated to write the letter to the editor because she didn't want to hear her son's name and reputation connected with Trump's campaign.
"I wrote it because I felt that Chris' name shouldn't be involved with that whole campaign," Commanday said from her home Saturday evening. "It's happened before ... I decided enough was enough, and I didn't want to see that happen anymore."
The Republican Party mentioned the attacks several times during its convention last week, and Commanday said she reached a point where she wanted the public to know she's had enough. Commanday added that she thinks Trump "is an outrageous person." |
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