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Union vs Emanuel
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac and techno

You both make great points. Without children, I have not really paid attention to the plight of educators and parents for a number of years.

That said...I do have two siblings that are in the educational system. FWIW, both complain about teacher's unions. My brother is now in administration and resents the unions telling him what teachers his school should be hiring. When he taught, his comment was "teacher evaluations... bring it on!" I guess he considered himself a good teacher and welcomed the competition.

My sister received awards for her teaching. But, when her husband was transferred, she was "unqualified" to teach because her new state required her to complete another internship (a concession with the union to protect union members).

Sometimes I wonder if the unions are the enemy of the better teachers.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a union member as a penetration tech. We fix nuke plants.
Our union and the other construction unions are the enemy of the best workers.
I am not popular on some jobs because I lack any skill in "not wasting the work"
This refers to making a one year job last for three, with out being obvious about it and getting fired.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno raised a rainbow of kids by choice and worked as teacher besides.
The idea that he cheerfully abandons these kids just because he made a true statement about choosing which students attend your school does not seem reasonable.
Public schools often choose from a list of kids who all deserve to be thrown out and keep potential winners.
So do we, but the Gringo founders always vote to keep anyone who has not directly disrespected a teacher in public in a major way
"Hi Bitch! " in the street will suffice
Our culture is 19th century English, when teachers were given well earned respect.
We vote against those kids. As to the others the locals think is very foolish to give some jerk a fifteenth chance but we always do.
So do many public school admin. They put jerks back in the class.
It makes your school a more difficult place to teach.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2673

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decades of excuses and reasons why "it's too difficult" to assess the performance of teachers. Yet most private companies find a way to assess the relative performance of their training people, or their legal staff or human resource staff or others whose performance cannot be linked to objective measures. The simple fact is that teacher's unions, and other public sector unions have no interest in a merit based pay structure. Nothing in their actions over decades suggests otherwise. They are directly responsible for declining standards.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14238

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
The simple fact is that teacher's unions, and other public sector unions have no interest in a merit based pay structure. Nothing in their actions over decades suggests otherwise. They are directly responsible for declining standards.

I assume the NEA supporters have seen this only slightly mislabeled video, in which an NEA leader states very clearly that although kids do matter, they do not matter as much as do power and collective bargaining for the teachers' benefits ... to a long standing ovation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baM8N24K8kE
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3573
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB -100 days on the water, 100 days on the mountain, 100 mile MTB rides...and now you tell us you dont have kids.....STOP rubbing it in!!!!
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggsman...my wife wished to raise only one child. And, I only get half those days on the water and mountain. Even children have chores!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5261

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this morning's news report progress on negotiations--after 2 years--with the fairness of the evaluation system the major issue. KC--you are right, unions often bog down in ensuring that marginal employees get their due process. But they also protect the truth speakers, and gay teachers, etc. And management often fails to properly fire the incompetent by not documenting their problems and failing to give them due process. No heroes there.

I see no effort to avoid evaluations or training or accountability--but efforts to make them fair. But for those for whom it is always about money, or them, will always fail to see that it is often neither about money--nor them.

Neither right wing chatter nor most union activities have much to do with improving education for children. But then neither did, at the end of the day, No Child left Behind.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3387

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer is better trained teachers. You cant train the parents.
All the teachers at our school must go to our teacher school almost nonstop.
they are required to get all A or A- grades
Those who dont train well do not get their one year contract renewed.
Would the Chicago teachers union allow this?
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1953
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
SNIP There is absolutely no excuse for an employee who is immune from any standards whatsoever, especially when our kids' futures are at stake.


"Our" kids? You assume too much and thankfully reproduce too little to mindfully comment.

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