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Union vs Emanuel
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2714

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I challenge you to quote where I have been "cavalier" in "dismissing those of us who make career decisions that are not based primarily on compensation". I have never said that. What I have done is rebut the ridiculous notion that, for most people, income from employment is not important.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe

Quote:
Those who look down their nose at the vast majority who are engaged in that pursuit are not being honest or are making excuses for their own shortcomings.


This was not intended as a cheap shot? If not, my apologies.

I will not bother to dig up your previous comments regarding "corner office" viewpoints or your disdain for Mac's career. It was a bit ugly.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2714

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may have misunderstood. I asked where I have been "cavalier" in "dismissing those of us who make career decisions that are not based primarily on compensation"
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did you add the "bit of snark" at the end of the illustrated post if it was not intended as a dismissive slam on at least one of us on this forum? Remember, there may be collateral damage! Or, did I misinterpret this?

Did I also misinterpret your comment "...those that cannot, teach"?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2714

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Why did you add the "bit of snark" at the end of the illustrated post if it was not intended as a dismissive slam on at least one of us on this forum? Remember, there may be collateral damage! Or, did I misinterpret this?

It was not "snark" (such an adolescent word) it was an opinion based upon a lifetime of observation. Those who truly follow their calling in life, are content with significantly reduced compensation, and are not resentful of others who have chosen a different path. I know a good many people like that, including my father. However, there are many others who believe that their abilities should have brought them greater success, so they create convenient explanations for their lack of achievement. I've worked alongside a good number of people like that.........."I'm just as good as him/ her"... "I could have done that job" etc, etc. The angry resentment spewing forth from Berkeley is not indicative of someone at peace with his choices.

BTW, you asked for data to demonstrate that teachers do not regard compensation as being of great importance. I provided 30,000 data points from Chicago and thousands more from Wisconsin. Do you still believe compensation not important to teachers?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5356

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start with mrgybe's claim:

Quote:
never an intelligent response to a different perspective


And then examine whether he practices what he preaches. Here are his comments, with, of course, the intelligent responses included:

Quote:
There are many things that motivate people. To suggest that financial reward is not high on most people's list is ridiculous.

It's totally absurd to suggest that financial reward is not a significant motivation for most people in their chosen occupation

All this pious talk about money not being important to people's employment is just nonsense.

I have said money from employment is important to most people, and most people will work a little harder, or a little longer, or a little more effectively if they will be rewarded for doing so. To deny that is to deny reality.

You people should try spending some time in the real world

ridiculous notion that, for most people, income from employment is not important


But of course, he thinks that I am not comfortable with the choices I have made. What is the inability to understand and respond to a different perspective called again? Arrogance or Hubris?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3456

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gybe says teachers mainly want money.
Half of the regulars here are teachers and ALL of them tell Gybe the same rebuttal.
He knows nothing about teaching except the things he reads here, but all the teachers here are wrong.
We are getting to know Mr Gybe.
He lately was lecturing me on Creole, a dialect he knows nothin about, and I have spoken my whole adult life.
Bush and Iso are never wrong either.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5888

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my view, I think the mrgybe is on a bumpy road here not necessarily because of what he is trying to say, but instead it's in how he says it.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5356

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler--I cannot agree:

Quote:
not necessarily because of what he is trying to say, but instead it's in how he says it.


There is an underlying failure to deal with, and respond to, other people's concerns. Certainly the constant stream of insults pisses me off, but look at the thread about Chicago teachers. At the end of the dispute, the strike was settled for a teacher review system that considered "value added", as well as other factors, and a salary increase for more hours worked. For mrgybe, it was always about money and being in control--because everything is. No response to the various articles about motivation. No citations, just his personal experience--in a non-teaching field.

It may be that Chicago teachers are already well paid and don't deserve a raise, or the city can't afford it. But there is no coherent thread of information that makes that point, and my experience--and sources-- tell me that it is very hard to retain teachers in a school system like Chicago's with 87% of the students poor. No argument made--only insults and assumptions thrown out.

But the more particular problem is the world view that we can either bribe, or browbeat, folks to perform better. No management performance literature supports this view--this is a conservative viewpoint brought to the table as a matter of faith, and supported with insults, not reasoning.

Mrgybe did try reasoning when he first appeared on the forum, and is effective now and then--but not so often.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5888

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, it's not that I disagree with you, but mrgybe does have a point in that the majority of folks work because they need the money they earn to live. But, going beyond that simple fact, there is much more going on. Even isobars noted that, and I think that he offered reasonable citation for it.

My mother, at 82 years old, currently has a part time job working 2 to 3 days a week in a retail shop selling collectible craft and artistic items. She has more than enough money to live on and then some, so it's really not about the money. In reality, it gets her out of the house and into an environment where she gets to talk to folks. Also, it gives her an opportunity dress up and wear her extensive jewelry collection.

mrgybe just wants to be stubborn. To fan the fire he has even brought up the idea that many of us are against folks trying to make money and get ahead. Overall, I think he's getting pissy because he has been cornered and has little support. No one really likes to lose.
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