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Union vs Emanuel
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3554
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to play the devil's advocate, or say something politically incorrect...but it seems to me that we are at an all-time high for dumbness. I've never seen so many fat, video game addict, non motivated unhappy, sugar addicted , medication taking kids in my life. When are we going to take a serious look at how we are raising our kids?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2654

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Forsooth, canst thou credit barns these days?..................prithhee, ist there naught canst be done to return to the days of yore from whence we cameth?"

Quote believed to be from the Middle Ages..........and repeated by every generation since as they move beyond middle age!!
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3370

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
You meant that a student is 100 times more likely to get a good education in the private school you worked at , right?

Dollar for dollar private schools have not given American students a better education for a hundred years. That is the actual reason parents both rich and poor send their kids to public. The biggest reason parents send kids to private is religious.
I own a private school. We have no union. We also have no magic power that makes us a better school than the public ones. We could improve with more money, and we do improve without it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of the smartest, best informed TR hosts I know of, one a Libertarian and the other a Democrat Congressional page and activist turned Republican, have for many years considered teachers' unions as dangerous to the future of our Republic as Al Qaeda ever was and Barack Obama is now. After listening to many hours of debate on the issue, nothing that union could do or say would surprise me. Google New York teachers rubber room for the tip of that disgusting iceberg.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Two of the smartest, best informed TR hosts I know of, one a Libertarian and the other a Democrat Congressional page and activist turned Republican, have for many years considered teachers' unions as dangerous to the future of our Republic as Al Qaeda ever was and Barack Obama is now. ...


Where is the link to that slap-forehead emoticon, pueno?

No claim seem too outlandish, absurd and insulting. That guy is beyond debate - never mind he doesn't even want to talk since 1/2 of the forum population is in his killfile.

All he's interested in is dumping his incendiary garbage here. Text book clinical case.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1477

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker said:
Quote:
I own a private school. We have no union. We also have no magic power that makes us a better school than the public ones. We could improve with more money, and we do improve without it.

Ah, but you do have magic power...................

1. You can hire good teachers and fire bad ones at your will (my point in my other posts regarding unions). This assumes that your contracts give you the right to NOT renew contracts for the coming year if the teacher does not perform up to your/the school's standards.

2. You can design and change curriculum to meet the needs/desires of the community and the school's goals without accountability except for whatever accrediting agencies you report to.

3. You can easily involve parents in their children's education (by the fact they are paying for their kid's schooling, they are easily motivated to get involved).

4. Discipline is much easier than public schools since the families have a financial investment in their kids, and are motivated to work with and keep their kids in the school for fear of losing their money.

5. Most, if not all of your clientele are there, expecting that their kids are being prepared for college. They expect that the curriculum and the education will meet that goal = you have motivated kids and parents. These expectations may very depending on which grade levels your school includes.

Not all private schools are better than public schools and there are many public schools that are better than many private schools. Your school's size, market, history, board, community, alumni, facilities, tuition and endowment can be an asset or a handicap, so it's not a given that a private eduction will always be great.

Yes, my experience has been great. The sub-standard large city public school system in my city provides for a thriving private school market. Pretty common for large metropolitan districts. Some of the suburban districts are not so hot either.

Of course there is a lot more to all of this which I will address at a later time.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet not one of these union-sucking loons will even Google the rubber room. All they want to know is what BSNBC spoon feeds them. If they knew 10% of the facts and well-supported opinions the real news, public debates, nationally renown educators, etc. have been revealing about national teachers' unions for years, they'd join the outrage against them. That ... or they're teachers demanding more damned pay and benefits per hour than most -- more per year than many -- doctors and lawyers get with none of the performance standards. There is absolutely no excuse for an employee who is immune from any standards whatsoever, especially when our kids' futures are at stake.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a kid in a NYC public school - just started 5th grade. I am in awe of the teachers, the care he receives by every professional in school, the principal who seems to be able to remember the name of every parent of every child.

An experience not shared by the childless angry guy.

Rubber rooms are for one purpose only: to allow due process in sorting out claims or complaints brought against teachers while at the same time taking the teacher out of the classroom to proactively protect the kids.

The keywords due process & protection of children do probably not come up in those Talk Radio rants Mike bases his opinions on.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3370

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well spoke techno.
We do have some of those abilities and depend on them to make up for our lacks.
I don't find that parents who pay are more motivated, though logic says they should be.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2670

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote:
isobars wrote:
Two of the smartest, best informed TR hosts I know of, one a Libertarian and the other a Democrat Congressional page and activist turned Republican, have for many years considered teachers' unions as dangerous to the future of our Republic as Al Qaeda ever was and Barack Obama is now. ...


Where is the link to that slap-forehead emoticon, pueno?

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