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Are you better off now...?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1917

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will answer Feuser's direct question.

Yes, I am better off than four years ago. Net worth is substantially higher than after the stock market and housing crash...paper losses....paper gains.

Business is much better this year than 2010 and 2011 (2009 was buoyed by substantial stimulus spending on projects that I was involved in).

BUT...Business in the construction industry is way down from the bubble years. I am afraid it will take a long time for the construction industry to recover from the housing and credit crash regardless of the actions of the administration (short of another hugh jolt of stimulus spending). In addition, productivity continues to climb...Less workers do more work. Add to that... folks had been carrying too much consumer debt and are not spending as much even as their financial condition improves. This drives down local goverment receipts and there are less funds for infrastructure improvement projects.

I am better off in one very significant area...the ACA will allow me to retire earlier since I will not need to save the extra cash to pay for a catastrophic illness that my insurer may not cover.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13804

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But your higher premiums may offset that, according to every accounting source including the CBO.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
...any fool could have saved the auto industry with billions in free taxpayer money...

Yes, Romney said he would have done that, even though he said he wouldn't do that.


Managed bankruptcy, like Delta Airlines. At least it would have been managed by professionals. At least those culpable would have been axed and new management put in place. Same with the banks. Managed liquidation and incentivize new owners to get rid of those bankers who put us in this mess. But nooooo.....govt always knows best, and now we are stuck with the same bad actors.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2575

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
But nooooo.....govt always knows best, and now we are stuck with the same bad actors.

And what has been their performance so far?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3476
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a trick question? Are you kidding. Jan 2009 was a terrifying time for me. I am in the financial world and have been building a business since 1991, and it was crumbling in early 09. Now it is back with a vengeance, so yes I am much better off than I was 4 years ago.... Much better.
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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Location: canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

way worse off, im in.. uh, was in manufacturing.. working with robotics, automation systems..
now...??

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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3952

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point exactly W8n. Manufacturing and small businesses have been decimated. The money changers saved. Auto bailed out with funny money, and the printing continues.

It looks better than 08 if you own stocks or bonds, but if you are a retiree, you've been devistated. If you are a manufacturer, you're done.

IMO this is worse than 07. When the hammer comes down and the money printing stops, we're in for heavy inflation or depression. Any fool can make things look good with $1Trillion in funny money spread to the wealthy. Wages are stagnent and costs going up to the diminishing middle class.

Boggs, I'm still in oil, gold, food, and junk bonds. Will be selling all shortly as we get close to election. I'm sorry I never bought Apple.....but will buy TBT and SH when all goes to hell. Soros and other billionaires are buying gold like there's no tomorrow.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3476
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve .... With QE coming this week , the ecb printing 2-3 tr and china pumping 150b into infrastructure , gold looks good.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1393

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
My point exactly W8n. Manufacturing and small businesses have been decimated. The money changers saved. Auto bailed out with funny money, and the printing continues.

It looks better than 08 if you own stocks or bonds, but if you are a retiree, you've been devistated. If you are a manufacturer, you're done.

IMO this is worse than 07. When the hammer comes down and the money printing stops, we're in for heavy inflation or depression. Any fool can make things look good with $1Trillion in funny money spread to the wealthy. Wages are stagnent and costs going up to the diminishing middle class.

Boggs, I'm still in oil, gold, food, and junk bonds. Will be selling all shortly as we get close to election. I'm sorry I never bought Apple.....but will buy TBT and SH when all goes to hell. Soros and other billionaires are buying gold like there's no tomorrow.


The "money changers" (?) were saved by TARP. The Bush administration offered a 2 page application with about 20 fields to fill out. Are you giving credit to Obama administration for attaching some conditions that got the taxpayers some of their money back?

http://moneyning.com/money-news/7-facts-you-may-not-know-about-the-tarp-capital-purchase-program/

Manufacturing was in decline over decades. Like everything else in the economy, its biggest issue was lack of paying customers, not a four point income tax increase for management; not regulations that allow well-run, clean companies to compete with corner-cutters and polluters.

Aside from industry specific trends, I can tell you that, in my experience, small businesses are structurally positioned a lot better now than they were in 2007.

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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
Location: canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manufacturing has been in decline in canada since the 'freetrade' deal was signed in '88... between Reagon and Mulroney. two conservatives, and now its in complete freefall..350,000 jobs in the last 8 years here in ontario, but, not saying its all their fault because really its everyones fault, everyone wants a better 'deal', consumers, manufactures, retailers.. everyone wants to get the most bang for their buck...right now! damn the longterm consequences..
but if im not working because ive been outsourced, or rightsized, i cant buy your products and services, so you suffer, and im not paying into the tax revenues that keep our social infrastructure going, we all suffer.. and now its snowballing.. and its pretty much out of control..were doomed, and no-one really gives a crap, so enjoy your sailing.. Wink
the good times are over...
all because we 'need' more plastic baubles, and 2 pairs of levis for the price of one.etc, Rolling Eyes

forget gold, buy silver.

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