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Testosterone replacement therapy, no not spam
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Testosterone replacement therapy, no not spam Reply with quote

Most of us are of the age when people start doing this.
My levels are within the normal range, 350 something, but I'm not the man I was! Mostly I'm just not any kind of daredevil now, I have fears for my safety that I never had in my entire life and I'm finding I don't like that. I suppose it's more the mental aspect of the testosterone I'm missing rather than the physical benefits.
I was curious so I talked to a clinic on the phone, they said they could get me into the 600-800 range. I do know one person on it and he loves what it has done for him, of course he was actually very low, not within the normal range.
From what I have read the potential problems of TRT are not really clear yet, the fear of prostate cancer has not really materialized but other problems may exist.
So, burn out or fade away?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5699

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, at 65, I definitely do not have the core physical strength on tap that I did as a younger man. While I've never really been one to work out in the past, I'm thinking that if I want to continue to windsurf at the levels I have in the past, I'm going to have to begin working out regularly. However, I wondered whether a testosterone supplement program will help in the process. So, I'd be interested to hear how you fare if you ultimately elect to start a testosterone program.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13871

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excerpts From the NYT:
... scientists recruited several hundred volunteers and gave them the hormone or a placebo. Those taking testosterone got stronger ... But had nearly five times the number of cardiovascular problems, including heart attacks and strokes. Safety monitors ended the trial early.

Since 2010, studies have produced mixed results. A 2012 study of veterans aged 40 and over with low testosterone found that those treated with the hormone were less likely to die, but more recent reports, including one published last week, have documented an increase in cardiovascular risk in men over age 65 taking testosterone ...

Though the drug is indicated for men with abnormally low testosterone levels, a condition called hypogonadism, doctors have been prescribing it to many men with normal levels.

“For people with truly low testosterone levels, the benefits outweigh the risks,” said Dr. Brad Anawalt [one of my doctors] ... “But for millions of others, it’s in the same category as snake oil.”

“There are what I would label testosterone factories out there, and it’s terrifying because we don’t know what the long-term safety profile is,” Dr. Anawalt said.

Some critics say the trend is reminiscent of another hormonal regimen with a sexy allure — estrogen ... Hormone treatment for women ... Rather than protecting women from heart disease, the popular estrogen and progestin combination increased the risk of blood clots, strokes and breast cancer when compared with a placebo, and did not protect from heart disease. [prostate and breast cancer have many medical parallels]

Though low testosterone is associated with health problems in older men, such as bone loss, decreased strength and decreased sex drive, it is not clear that low testosterone is the cause of these problems or that boosting testosterone reverses them ... Testosterone also declines in men who are obese and don’t exercise, Dr. Anawalt pointed out.

Mary Schooling, a Hunter College professor of public health, is convinced testosterone is harmful for older men ... Dr. Anawalt has been taking a firm approach with his patients, often telling them that he’s not convinced that they really suffer from low testosterone. “There are so many men out there looking for the elixir of youth,” he said.

“I say, ‘I’m not going to prescribe a therapy for you for the rest of your life if I’m not sure it’s safe for you. And by the way, if you could exercise a little more, lose a couple pounds and eat more healthfully — there’s evidence you can raise your testosterone that way.’ ”
--------------------
This TRT screed blitzing the TV screen strikes me much like the statin BS. Without further formal studies and more literature research on my part, I wouldn't touch TRT (the literature has already convinced me statins are somewhere between risky and downright dangerous, not to mention of no value, for the vast majority of people) with a 100 foot pole.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes the question seems to be if TRT causes cardiovascular events (heart attack or stroke) or simply makes existing cardiovascular conditions worse.
From my previous hobby of serious weightlifting back in the 80's and 90's I can recite anecdotal evidence of more than a few bodybuilders and retired NFL linemen who croaked out way too early from heart attacks, of course these guys were using the gear at a much higher level than typical TRT. But still, heart attacks probably from an increased cholesterol and strokes probably from an increased red blood cell count causing thickening of the blood.
The NFL linemen were huge people and mostly became even fatter after retirement, the bodybuilders were huge but not fat but they often became fat before croaking out. They were all probably at a higher risk anyways.
Is the problem in the study primarily amongst sedentary individuals with bad blood chemistry already? Can the issue be prevented by more thorough screening and monitoring of blood chemistry? Could we just take an aspirin a day to help thin the blood? Were the people in the TRT study the type that would take a chance with drugs? for instance had they already damaged their hearts from snorting coke heavily back in the 70's?
If the study was done amongst fit, active men with good blood chemistry would the same percent also die from heart attacks and strokes?
Too many questions still to make conclusions, in fact regarding the study Iso was referring to; The group conducting the study has requested the JAMA retract their article because it is misleading and there are too many problems with the data being correct or not.
And finally... is it worth the risk anyways because it makes you so much more strong, daring, happy and confident?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think having a little fear later in life is not a bad thing. Regardless of our core strength or fitness ( I rode my mountain bike as strong as I ever did last year), our reflexes do slow, as does our flexibility.

I am learning to embrace the fear some. I came very close to grabbing my old kayak and launching into the spring runoff last week...would have done it 20 years ago for sure...regardless of the fact I haven't been in a kayak for several seasons. Was my chickening out a bad thing? Now, I 'll wait a couple weeks till it is a bit less dangerous and still have a shitload of fun!

Still...at 50 I took up kiting...and my mid-fifties little bother, who has never rock climbed, wants me to lead him up Devils Tower. Got any supplements I could recommend to him to reduce testosterone?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3962

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Staying in shape is the key. We get injured more as we age, and that starts a downward spiral. I was just getting back into shape when I fractured my ankle 5 1/2 weeks ago. I'm going to try the delta tomorrow for my 1st day back on the water......NO FOOTSTRAPS for at least another 2 weeks. Laughing
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that really sucks what happened to you Stevenbard but it seems you are making a very fast recovery Smile
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the perspective of being 76 years old and physically fit, but mentally weary, a couple of points.

1) Artificial or chemical enhancement of either mind or body (not talking illness treatment or injury repair) is anathema to me. Whatever can still be achieved must be down to self discipline and drive, not jiggery-pokery.

2) The mental driving force 'pushing' to always go bigger and better is OFF! The satisfaction now is in still being there, but in more benign conditions while performing to a decent level (relative to past) and reliving the previous intensity in the mind. (Kayak journey obvious example. A kind of sticking two fingers up to the past, and thinking you didn't get me then when you had the chance, and it's not rough enough today!)

But the funny side is how most people just don't expect an oldie to perform, so if and when they do, they are left gobsmacked. (Priceless.) That, to me, makes up for a lot. It's a diffent kind of one-upmanship, and all with NO artificial boost, or aid.

Roll on REAL old age - not going to go quietly!!! Laughing Laughing
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1203
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dad says old age is not for the weak or timid. I think he probably knows! But you can tell from my own comments I'm OK with a little "jiggery-pokery" ;*) Then again, you're old enough to be my dad.
;*) ;*)

-Craig

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Roll on REAL old age - not going to go quietly!!! Laughing Laughing
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:


1) Artificial or chemical enhancement of either mind or body (not talking illness treatment or injury repair) is anathema to me. Whatever can still be achieved must be down to self discipline and drive, not jiggery-pokery.


No caffeine for you!
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