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the big lie "the media is liberal"
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4210

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the problem. You could represent that low taxes spur faster economic growth, which in turn will help mothers and children. You could also say that a policy of redistribution will fill their tummys (for a year or two), until they starve....because businesses will shutter their doors.

That pesky 1st amendment keeps getting in our way.

When will you admit that a flat tax gets rid of (most) lobbyists, Pacs, dirty dealing and the like. Look at it this way, at least GE and Apple would pay taxes.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3438

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never seen a Beck rally but I spoke to a guy who attended one.
He was breathless about Becks magnificent intellect. He said beck had the solution to all problems but "they" were preventing that, along with many other conspiracies.
He spent more than an hour explaining all the dreadful opinions held by all liberals.Did you know liberals plan to kill the children of conservatives through withholding health care for conservatives babies?
He got 100 percent of his ideas from Talk Radio, including the conspiracies against Bachman who was also a visionary.
His list of traitors extended to so many groups of people, he finally said yes he did consider most US Citizens to be traitors who should be dealt with.
is a person who considers you "a traitor to be dealt with" an enemy of yours?
The guy said he was an accountant. Perhaps the next time I trust an accountant with my money ,I should check to see whether he thinks I deserve to be executed for my political views.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3438

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the idea of a Flat Tax until Factcheck explained the details to me.
The Devil is in those details.
The key problem with a flat tax is that it does not reduce taxes.
It redistributes the bill to folks who can barely survive now, away from the corps who pay most taxes now.
The gov bill we owe through taxes remains the same.
Various ideas for giving allowances and exceptions to keep dirt poor folks from paying part of the corps current tax bills would shift those taxes to the middle class. Adding more exemptions to fix that and soon you have a complex system like the one we have now.
Our current system does have flat rates like a flat tax but it has grown so complex it is foolish, and a flat tax would need to do the same to retain the current distribution.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2704

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
I have never seen a Beck rally but I spoke to a guy who attended one.
He was breathless about Becks magnificent intellect. He said beck had the solution to all problems but "they" were preventing that, along with many other conspiracies.
He spent more than an hour explaining all the dreadful opinions held by all liberals.Did you know liberals plan to kill the children of conservatives through withholding health care for conservatives babies?
He got 100 percent of his ideas from Talk Radio, including the conspiracies against Bachman who was also a visionary.
His list of traitors extended to so many groups of people, he finally said yes he did consider most US Citizens to be traitors who should be dealt with.
is a person who considers you "a traitor to be dealt with" an enemy of yours?
The guy said he was an accountant. Perhaps the next time I trust an accountant with my money ,I should check to see whether he thinks I deserve to be executed for my political views.

You live in a fantasy world.........and I don't mean Maui
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4210

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many corporations pay no taxes anyway. You could tax everything but food, and start at a 30k level before the flat tax started. Someone making 60k would pay an effective rate of 4.5% with the 9-9-9 rate proposed by Cain.

That guy was certainly crazy, but his tax plan made sense.

BTW, the Tea Party is marching around the country today at IRS offices. I doubt they'll need the police for anything more serious than finding a lost child.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, by bringing up Cain, I know that you're lost in a world of nonsense. I think that most thoughtful folks realize that a progressive income tax system distributes tax obligations more fairly based on income levels. That's not to say that we don't need to overhaul things as they now stand. Also, I think that it's clear that the reduced tax rates that we've had since the Bush Tax Cuts were passed are far too low for all income groups. That's a big reason why we have the deficit and debt levels we do right now. Although the Great Recession has worked to exacerbate our problems greatly, we still need higher tax rates and an improved economy to begin to turn our situation around. Believe me, paying less in taxes will not solve our problems.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 947
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Many corporations pay no taxes anyway. You could tax everything but food, and start at a 30k level before the flat tax started. Someone making 60k would pay an effective rate of 4.5% with the 9-9-9 rate proposed by Cain.

That guy was certainly crazy, but his tax plan made sense.

BTW, the Tea Party is marching around the country today at IRS offices. I doubt they'll need the police for anything more serious than finding a lost child.


why should they be revolting in their faux protest that is all about nothing. Not one of them had their status refused. The only one that did was a liberal one, they are the one who has a right to be outraged.

Or how about where is the outrage by right wingers as the right wingers are stopping students, poor, blacks, browns, elderly from their most important right to vote. Now they have the real right to be protesting because that is taxation without representation ie what the real tea party was over....
do you get the hypocritical stance of the tea party here denying and preventing Americans from voting, the most fundamental important right of a democracy for which people have died.


As far as people saying flat tax, well show us one developed nation in the world that works with a so called 5%... these idiots would experiment with the future with their mad science without testing their so called junk science NO research. These right wingers think they are smart, yet they have not one top ranked university in any red area of the USA. In fact right wingers glorify being an idiot like Reagan, Bush, Palin Arnold, ie it is more important to talk like a idiot than to be smart.

Anyway Europe has a tax on all products of about 20% and they still have to pay as high as 60% on income and 50% on gas. and yet they have a much higher standard of living, average vacation time of a German union worker highest paid union worker in the world is 2 months vacation time. And they are the one bailing out other nations.

so obviously it is not the unions, it is not vacation time. I will clue you in, a CEO makes a fraction of what an amarican one does. The rich in Germany have a love of their people and culture and invest in their country. american rich hate americans and think they should make minimum wage that is not a living wage. and take their money out of the country, no pride in america. They have been doing this for 40 years at least.
I worked in collage at a machine shop that the owners son had taken over and he was milking it and not investing in any new machines, we were using WW2 machine and tooling. I go into many companies in my profession to qualify them, and saw this all over, very few companies were making products with new technology machines. You could almost always tell if the trust fund kids took over the company would not invest in the company anymore. Go to a company where the founder was there and in general they would have state of the art machinery that could product at tight tolerances.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3438

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I am confused on the part where we pay less taxes but still cover our debts.
How do we pay the bills unless we take in the same amount in taxes?
Large Corps presently pay most of those taxes for certain. Would you like a link on that.?

Rich people would pay less at 4.5% percent for sure along with nearly all middle class people.
When everyone pays less, how does that pay the bills?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4210

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only 1-2% of the people are rich. You could tax them at 100% like they do in France and all you'll get in 100% of the people poor. The rich are moving out of France in droves thanks to the Euro Union.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are all the rich French going, and what are they spending their money on?
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