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the big lie "the media is liberal"
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1848

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, therein lies part of the problem. Many of us identify with a political party, or a philosophy, and assume the best of the leaders that tout this philosophy. There is, quite often, a great deal of disconnect between what one might believe and the actions of the politicians he supports.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metaphorically voting is like choosing between whether you want brain cancer or lymphoma.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3017

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That wasn't the original plan with democracy.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3604

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
That wasn't the original plan with democracy.


Absolutely correct. That was a time when men were responsible for their own wellbeing. They were self sufficient. There was no income tax. It was a tariff, that helped build America into the strongest nation in the world.

With so many special interest groups, billion dollar campaigns, welfare state, healthcare, Obama phones etcetera, we do not give men the chance to be men. Many are just useful idiots, who vote for the guy with the best goodies, brightest smile, and dynamic story.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3017

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my doubts about the good old days when folks did well.
Ever read those quotes about how screwed up modern life is?
They really ring true, but were written by Greek Philosophers in ancient times.
People away from the cities died young or were murdered by bandits in America not long ago.
Without roads, law, healthcare, ins. we found it very hard to take care of ourselves. It was usual to die at home with an infected cut like my aunt in the 1940s.
It wasn't a good idea to be black in my youth.
Or to go into the polluted water in many places before all those annoying rules.
Maybe the gov. isnt such a bad idea, except for this one.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1848

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the time of our great grandfathers until now, our life expectancy has increased enough to provide us the equivalent of two extra days per week (Richard Lamm), This is largely due to a healthcare system that has received substantial government funding, water and sewer systems that significantly reduce disease almost exclusively due to government funding, a transportion system that was financed by government that provides a method to transport food throughout the country....

I believe balance is important, and perhaps government is too large. But, this increased life expectancy comes at a fair cost. We need more jobs, more food, more health care. This, with an ever-increasing population means, sadly, we need more government than in the glory days.

Look at health care and social security for seniors alone. In 1950 there were 17 workers per SS beneficiary now it is less than 3 workers to support 1 retiree. The average retiree lives 25% longer after age 65 than in 1940 and receives a level of health care that was unimaginable in those days.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3604

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Gates once said he'd rather be a poor man today than a wealthy king 200 years ago.

However, if you are just a cattle, waiting in line for slaughter. At the feed trough, what is the purpose of life? Adversity build character. Certainly not starvation. But where do we draw the line?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1848

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Bill Gates once said he'd rather be a poor man today than a wealthy king 200 years ago.

However, if you are just a cattle, waiting in line for slaughter. At the feed trough, what is the purpose of life? Adversity build character. Certainly not starvation. But where do we draw the line?


That is the $16.7 T question isn't it?

To me your issue with folks not pulling their way pales in comparison to the problems we face when our aging population hits the dole. That is why I am so adamant that we have to get on with a universal health care system that has some chance of addressing this. Burying our heads in the sand and expecting market forces to fix things is not gonna work.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
That wasn't the original plan with democracy.


You think that the election process is still a democracy? Considering the amount of money that goes into elections, I would say it is more like a chosen monarchy. Elections are a joke now with all the mud slinging. How anyone wants to vote for bozo A or bozo B is beyond comprehension.

I've always believed that the leadership should set the example. It would appear that the example being set has become part of the American culture. This divisiveness starts right from the top and has trickled its way throughout your country. If I was an American I wouldn't be wasting my time pointing fingers at the "other" part and trying to attach some hate platform by saying hateful things. I'd be trying to change the election process and how that works and how and who can fund it. It's the furthest thing away from democracy in my opinion, and all it is doing is tearing a great country apart.

I can only pray that my great country will not follow so closely in yours footsteps.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5437

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, one thing that you might think about today is that it really takes two incomes for families to live comfortably in the middle class, whereas it generally used to take one income. For all the talk about folks cruising easy today on government welfare, I think it's a big fallacy created by the right. Although folks may not always be paying a lot in income taxes, it doesn't necessarily correlate to not working hard to survive. Also, with the high tuition rates today for college, keeps a lot of folks down and out of luck. Unfortunately, Republicans aren't making it any easier to get low cost government loans. With all the claims about wanting to help the average American, their efforts have been coming up decidedly short.
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