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the big lie "the media is liberal"
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
bajaDean wrote:


From what I understand of your position is breaking a law of any kind is not acceptable to a degree and so I assume even forgetting to pay the parking meter with enough money is a gateway crime too.

The human factors of rolling stops is proven in baja Mexico to be safe, efficient and optimizes human factors. There is no reason for the USA to insist on a needless inefficient regulation. We spend thousands and millions on figuring out optimizing intersection light patterns to optimize efficient traffic flow to minimize wasting energy and time. This stop sign nonsense has to stop. Or are Americans not as smart as Mexicans to figure this out?



Hmm, I don't know if I said that. BUT ask yourself. What is the point in even having a law if it isn't obeyed and enforced? If not nothing but a waste of time. And a parking meter is not even close to a law. It's a parking regulation. And if you forget to put money in it and get a ticket, pay attention more next time and just pay the ticket. But I'm laughing if you think there is any criminal intent there for not putting enough in the meter.....

As to comparing Baja Mexico traffic to US traffic, are you CRAZY??? Comparing a basic VERY rural area to areas with high concentration of vehicles? Yeah if I lived out in Bo-Dunk USA I'm sure traffic regulations would not make that much different to the 100 of us that live there. But I'm sure comparing that to a place with high population would be a joke. (think of Calif. It is basically one city from San Fernando to San Diego). Do you really think this is apples vs apples? Or more like apples vs. a fruit on mars.....


How are parking laws say parking in a fire lane any different than traffic laws like not honking, vs spitting out your gum on a city street as the slippery slope argument goes.


Guess you have not been to baja with a comment like that... FYI they do have a densely populated town where they use this stop sign method. If you have never been there, it might be hard for you to intelligently comment on it. I know I would have never believed it till I actually learned the system. When friends come down and drive in it they generally have a very difficult time adapting to it. Till I make sure they understand that they do need to respect the ways of another country and drive safely IE drive like the locals or you are being rude by putting them at risk by not doing what is expected/anticipated by the residents..
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is another example of the so called liberal media...


Quote:
Firing Line is an American public affairs show founded and hosted by conservative William F. Buckley, Jr., founder and publisher of National Review magazine. Its 1,504 episodes over 33 years made Firing Line the longest-running public affairs show in television history with a single host.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is another example of the so called liberal media. Manning just testified he went to the NYT and the Washington post and neither would accept the documents. what liberal media would not at least look at the material to at least give it a shot from a soldier. Again if it is all about making money you would always want the scoop on others. Remember most media knew about Nixon and his criminal behaviour and NONE put any reporters on it full time. Only when deep throat went to then were they allowed to go after a right wing leader.

Quote:
Bradley Manning has revealed to his court-martial at Fort Meade, Maryland, that he tried to leak US state secrets to the Washington Post,New York Times and Politico before he turned in frustration to the new anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks.

Manning, the US solider accused of the biggest leak of state secrets in US history, read out a 35-page statement to the court that contained new detail on how he came to download and then transmit a massive trove of secrets to WikiLeaks. It contains the bombshell disclosure that he wanted to go to mainstream American media but found them impenetrable.
While he was on leave from Iraq and staying in the Washington area in January 2010 he contacted the Washington Post and asked would it be interested in receiving information that he said would be “enormously important to the American people”. He spoke to a woman who said she was a reporter but “she didn’t seem to take me seriously”.The woman said, according to Manning’s account, that the paper would only be interested subject to vetting by senior editors.Despairing of that route, Manning turned to the New York Times. He called the public editor of the paper but only got voicemail. He then tried other numbers on the paper but also got put through to voicemail, and though he left a message with his Skype contact details, nobody called him back. Manning added he had also contemplated going to the website Politico, but harsh weather prevented him.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1182
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bajaDean wrote:
How are parking laws say parking in a fire lane any different than traffic laws like not honking, vs spitting out your gum on a city street as the slippery slope argument goes.


Guess you have not been to baja with a comment like that... FYI they do have a densely populated town where they use this stop sign method. If you have never been there, it might be hard for you to intelligently comment on it. I know I would have never believed it till I actually learned the system. When friends come down and drive in it they generally have a very difficult time adapting to it. Till I make sure they understand that they do need to respect the ways of another country and drive safely IE drive like the locals or you are being rude by putting them at risk by not doing what is expected/anticipated by the residents..


Well first of all a parking violation is a parking violation. It costs you money nothing more. A traffic violation is a MOVING (normally) violation against your driving record. It costs you money, possible license restrictions, and possible increased insurance. PLUS you can be arrested if you don't appear in court. Spitting out your gum? Give me a break, littering at best, which is now a criminal offense or a municiple code. Probably an infraction also. See the difference? Or is that slope too slippery for you?


Hmm, flew to San Juan, drove to La Ventana, drove around La Ventana and surrounding "towns", drove back. I do belive that is in Baja... Or are you talking about ONE town in Baja that has this "stop sign method"?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
a parking violation is a parking violation. It costs you money nothing more.

Maybe in town. See what they do to a career, military or civilian, on a military base.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
bajaDean wrote:
How are parking laws say parking in a fire lane any different than traffic laws like not honking, vs spitting out your gum on a city street as the slippery slope argument goes.


Guess you have not been to baja with a comment like that... FYI they do have a densely populated town where they use this stop sign method. If you have never been there, it might be hard for you to intelligently comment on it. I know I would have never believed it till I actually learned the system. When friends come down and drive in it they generally have a very difficult time adapting to it. Till I make sure they understand that they do need to respect the ways of another country and drive safely IE drive like the locals or you are being rude by putting them at risk by not doing what is expected/anticipated by the residents..


Well first of all a parking violation is a parking violation. It costs you money nothing more. A traffic violation is a MOVING (normally) violation against your driving record. It costs you money, possible license restrictions, and possible increased insurance. PLUS you can be arrested if you don't appear in court. Spitting out your gum? Give me a break, littering at best, which is now a criminal offense or a municiple code. Probably an infraction also. See the difference? Or is that slope too slippery for you?


Hmm, flew to San Juan, drove to La Ventana, drove around La Ventana and surrounding "towns", drove back. I do belive that is in Baja... Or are you talking about ONE town in Baja that has this "stop sign method"?


Can you tell me how many stop signs there are between the airport and LaVentana? Can you tell me the number of stop signs in LaVentana too.

There are many towns in baja sur that do the rolling stop sign thing, even smaller ones like Todos Santos.

So you admit that the spitting out the gum is a criminal offense much more severe than a 1 mph speeding ticket. Thanks for making my point.

Quote:
A 12-year-old Chula Vista boy is facing criminal charges for spitting out a school bus window.
.....
Michael was later arrested by Chula Vista police for misdemeanor battery
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1182
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude that is just lame. A criminal offense means it is out of the Penal code or local municipal codes (in Calif, other states may call them something else). That does NOT say now severe it is. It could just as easily be an infraction. But believe what you want. Having a conversation about th law with somebody who has NO actual knowledge of law is a waste of my time. Get educated then come back when you actually know something about laws..


Do you even know what battery is? That means he HIT somebody with it. Which is a battery. Just like spitting on somebody...
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Dude that is just lame. A criminal offense means it is out of the Penal code or local municipal codes (in Calif, other states may call them something else). That does NOT say now severe it is. It could just as easily be an infraction. But believe what you want. Having a conversation about th law with somebody who has NO actual knowledge of law is a waste of my time. Get educated then come back when you actually know something about laws..


Do you even know what battery is? That means he HIT somebody with it. Which is a battery. Just like spitting on somebody...


You certainly educated me on the number of stop signs you hit in baja from the airport to laventana.

OK the gum hit someone in a car.... Charges would have been dropped if he would have written the requested essay,bla bla bla so seems it was pre-meditated ha? Come on this was about the slippery slope of speeding and next gateway to turning society into mass murderers. I showed gum throwing is a more serious crime than your gateway speeding. My friend you know the point and just do not like that maybe you are a bit severe in this case/perspective.

Believe it or not you may be wrong about what is more effective in meeting societies objectives goals with stop signs. As I said it is proven effective in a densely populated city, have seen it myself.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5893

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bajadean, this rolling through the stop sign thing that you seem to be promoting is ridiculous. What happens when 4 different vehicles approach their respective stop signs at the same time? Who has to stop and who doesn't? Stop signs are about safety and establishing a reasonable order to things. I don't think that you can reasonably argue otherwise.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 949
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
bajadean, this rolling through the stop sign thing that you seem to be promoting is ridiculous. What happens when 4 different vehicles approach their respective stop signs at the same time? Who has to stop and who doesn't? Stop signs are about safety and establishing a reasonable order to things. I don't think that you can reasonably argue otherwise.


Here let me run down the rules on Baja stop sign just in case you ever come to baja and come upon one.

Rule one, if a pedestrian is at the corner it is a normal USA stop sign logistics that apply. One must yield to all pedestrians, it becomes a absolute stop sign if the person is crossing in front of you. Also at busy pedestrian areas all stop signs are stop signs you must stop.

rule two, you approach and slow down like you are going to stop. It is not a freeway entrance sign. So you make the rolling decision at a very low to low speed. Go flying through and you do get a ticket.

Rule three, as you get to final slow approach if another car is in view in other directions if there is a clear winner the winner has first right of way and all others must stop. The clear winner may proceed without a full stop all others must stop.

Now some may say oh I am or americans are too stupid to understand and figure it out. It is just too complicated for dumb americans.... Well you already figure this out as you come to a complete stop each and every time to decide if all cars get there for a full stop at the same time and stop who gets to go first. It is exactly the same process so you are not as stupid as you may think you are.

There you go, about the safest most efficient means for congested populated 4 ways intersections I have seen.

added to post... very good data here.
Here a quick search and here is the costs involved because of stupid stop signs... VS intelligent use of stop signs

they estimate a single stop sign intersections costs about net present value 2 million in gas and productivity.

http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take_turns.html
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