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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1928
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's (still) the economy, stupid. Clinton set forth compelling if not complete dissonance of the spoken and achieved economic policies and results between Obama and Romney.

The most stark example: GWB began the process of the stimulus, Obama worked with all significant parties to offer credit to two of the three Detroit automakers, convinced the unions to take a huge hit and play a huge part of the successful loan guaranty programs. Romney, a son of Detroit as it were, exercised his wisdom to publicly announce his suggestion that the automakers go bankrupt. How many jobs represent the absolute value between these decisions? 3/4 million or more?

Imagine the economic catastrophe beyond what we experienced. That's the main difference between the two men, the incumbent is thoughtful and the other so ill-grounded that he panders with apparent disregard for the logical consequences. Romney will have a very hard time living this one down.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4985

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourth graders are taught that good writing, indeed good reasoning, involves mustering up details. So when challenged to do so, do the righties deliver up the details? Not likely, this comment by matty is typical:

Quote:
What Clinton did is remind us what a complete failure obama has been. Bill got things done, crossed party lines, and earned the respect of many Americans


Back to talking points, with no indication of the metrics by which Obama has been a failure. But ignoring completely the other side of the aisle--the sad fact that the sole agenda for the Republicans for the last 3 1/2 years has been to not cooperate with Obama. Now if Obama had been a Senate and House insider like LBJ, with Lyndon's warmth and willikng to bust balls, I dare say he might have been even more effective. But I give you three metrics that matter to me:

1. Stopped the bank panic. When Obama and McCain returned to Washington DC in the middle of a meltdown, McCain complained to aids that he knew nothing about economics. Bush had presented a 2 page bank bail out with no accountability. Obama's team made the legislation work.

2. Provided an economic stimulus. I agree that it should have been larger and more of it should have gone into infrastructure construction to help the construction industry. But he got done what he could with the available votes.

3. Health care. Despite the united opposition of Republicans and their unwillingness to deliver a single vote for what was, in essence, formerly a Republican approach, Obama outmaneuvered them all.

Now for the other 197 accomplishments, metrics, and citations try this: http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html

Matty, mrgybe, Bard, techno--ball is on your side of the net. Try something substantive.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best SPEAKER in either convention has been The Master, Bill Clinton, IMO. He talks to you, not reads or lectures. And just what was his basic message? Unabashed, unashamed, unembarrassed, pure Marxist wealth redistribution, under the euphemism "shared prosperity" ... From those who earned it to those who want it.

The best SPEECH, at least in the Dem Convention, IMO, was Pelosi's. Brief, succinct, deceptive, clear, repetitive, rhythmic, aimed directly at non-questioning myrmidons. She had the women in the audience swaying to the beat, and facts be damned, which is the purpose and essence of most purely political speeches.

A few things you BSNBC sponges missed:

Didja hear about the Republican delegate who stated on the record that "If I saw Barack Obama, I'd want to kill him". Of COURSE you didn't hear about it, because in fact it was a Democrat delegate and she said that about Mitt Romney. Google the audio.

How about the large gathering of Democrat delegates opining, some even demanding, that corporate profits should be capped or outlawed. Google the audio. If outlawed, they'd all leave the country. If capped, corps would work until they hit their profit cap, shut their doors and lay off most workers, then start hiring again next year.

The forecast for the Convention was nice weather. The venue change purpose was exactly what Mat-ty said. Google it.

The Harvard Law professor and Congressional candidate who spoke shortly before Bill Clinton LIED ... not misspoke ... right to our faces, when she claimed Romney hides his money from the IRS in the Grands Caymans. Google the speech.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1059

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many times have the airlines filed for bankruptcy and survived? Did Ford and many others survive, yes they did. It was political payback!!! from a partisan hack. WHERE IS MY FREAKING BAILOUT,

Mac obama had complete control for two years and took that opportunity to jam the largest spending bill known to mankind down Americas throat, with backroom deals, payoffs , zero transparency , little support from the taxpayers and you wonder how we ended up hear.

Fourth graders understand that real men face up to their failures, and spineless cowards blame others.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1928
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
The best SPEAKER in either convention has been The Master, Bill Clinton, IMO. He talks to you, not reads or lectures. And just what was his basic message? Unabashed, unashamed, unembarrassed, pure Marxist wealth redistribution, under the euphemism "shared prosperity" ... From those who earned it to those who want it.

The best SPEECH, at least in the Dem Convention, IMO, was Pelosi's. Brief, succinct, deceptive, clear, repetitive, rhythmic, aimed directly at non-questioning myrmidons. She had the women in the audience swaying to the beat, and facts be damned, which is the purpose and essence of most purely political speeches.

A few things you BSNBC sponges missed:

Didja hear about the Republican delegate who stated on the record that "If I saw Barack Obama, I'd want to kill him". Of COURSE you didn't hear about it, because in fact it was a Democrat delegate and she said that about Mitt Romney. Google the audio.

How about the large gathering of Democrat delegates opining, some even demanding, that corporate profits should be capped or outlawed. Google the audio. If outlawed, they'd all leave the country. If capped, corps would work until they hit their profit cap, shut their doors and lay off most workers, then start hiring again next year.

The forecast for the Convention was nice weather. The venue change purpose was exactly what Mat-ty said. Google it.

The Harvard Law professor and Congressional candidate who spoke shortly before Bill Clinton LIED ... not misspoke ... right to our faces, when she claimed Romney hides his money from the IRS in the Grands Caymans. Google the speech.


Marxist. Socialist. Communist.

Mike, you directly and personally benefit from a redistribution of wealth program. I'm not going to debate whether you deserve those disability benefits for your ear issue, that was decided by others long ago. But please stick a cork in it before you label progressive taxation as one of the above. Not only is it grossly inaccurate but stunningly hypocritical.

(Please don't counter with "I earned it" because all of the above three systems are premised also on people earning their benefits.) I have no problem with people voting for Romney given that we only have two electable candidates. Tens of millions will, some for very decent and reasonable reasons.

Your apparent blind (and I do mean blind) allegiance is unfortunate given that you are a bright guy. And that's the problem, you should know better. Back in 1999 and 2000 on rec dot, you railed against John Kerry in a manner that suggested you were new to politics. You largely admitted as much. OK, most people new to something so important tend to oversimplify. Over a decade later, the people and issues have changed, but your method of analysis has not. I remember your claim that Texas kids were getting their pencils stolen by the teacher as a matter of policy. That claim was factually incorrect, though I appreciate your plain ignorance of modern elementary education since you have no children. How could you know? Anyway, you used that story to deduce that the sky was falling and Democrats were leading the way.

You and I debated your claim (which you still make) that one could not get out of network medical treatment under the Clinton health care plan unless you wanted to go to jail. You kindly served up the section in the bill where you claimed such sanctions arose, but it said nothing of the sort. Yet, you recently brought up that Dusie to criticize Obamacare.

One is entitled to one's own opinion, but not one's own facts as the saying goes. But why let factual accuracy guide the pursuit of truth? As President Clinton noted, "It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did."

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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2583

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:

Didja hear about the Republican delegate who stated on the record that "If I saw Barack Obama, I'd want to kill him". Of COURSE you didn't hear about it, because in fact it was a Democrat delegate and she said that about Mitt Romney. Google the audio.

Oh, you mean like this?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Mac obama had complete control for two years"


mat-ty, why do you keep repeating something that is patently false? As a resident of Massachusetts, you should be well aware of the fact that Senator Kennedy's medical issues prevented him from casting his vote in the Senate. While I will admit that there were a few months where the Democrats did have a supermajority in the Senate, it wasn't "complete control for two years". Why did the Republicans set a new record for the greatest number of filibuster threats ever? They wouldn't have stood a chance in hell with the filibuster if the Democrats had the numbers for a supermajority as you claim. Don't you think that being honest and truthful about this matter is warranted?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder where we will be four years from now if Obama gets re-elected? Does anyone think the right will cave and compromise with the left's agenda? Not likely = status quo.

What if Obama wins and the right takes over the house and senate or if things stay the same. Will much be achieved? Not likely.

Economically, we will be in the same boat four years from now unless Romney wins. Then we will see.

Clinton was more of a centrist and compromise was a lot easier. As the left goes hard left (what the right feels), then the right goes hard right for balance, which gets us nowhere.

Yes, we know, the right are obstructionists, but that's only what you see from the left. From the right, Obama and the senate are the obstructionists. The senate has been bombarded with bills from the house and they do nothing, which seems obstructionist to me. No compromise from either side that I can see.

Anyway, just an observation of how it may play out. Now I have to determine if I turn right or left when I leave my driveway, it's so confusing!
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2583

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

Yes, we know, the right are obstructionists, but that's only what you see from the left. From the right, Obama and the senate are the obstructionists.

Who on the left has said publicly, "Our only job is to obstruct"?

Was that the great Democratic Senator Mitch McConnell?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4985

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still waiting for a compelling defense of Paul Ryan as something other than a fraud. I would accept a compelling rationale for Mitt as something other than a pancake on a hot griddle.

Matty--they're still waiting for you at the AIDS ward. Dude, you were supposed to sign up for Karmic Relief, not Comic Relief. Bedpans are getting cold.
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