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The bench looks great
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my gosh Begala, it's time for mistletoe and holly ...

Correct wing, wrong face. Here's the real deal:


Looks better in that borrowed suit than in the other snapshots we've seen of him, showing a grizzled beach bum looking -- and thinking -- more like Richard Dreyfus.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2248
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, you are a total ass.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 11282
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You righties are a little on the obsessive compulsive spectrum--except where it comes to having facts to support your biases. Here comes Mikey again, with a meta-message that says I can find you and you're not safe. Always with the threats and insults.

The funny thing, which I've pointed out before, is that you guys don't understand people that are different from you. You can't comprehend that different people are motivated by different things, and it isn't always money or organizational power. You don't understand the value of diversity, in ways of thinking, in the nature of the values that motivate you and the like. I have/have had enough of both money and power to know that isn't the path to happiness.

So Matty, I'm pretty happy and amused most of the time. I get to sail with my friends almost every day on San Francisco Bay--usually from Berkeley to near Alcatraz Island and back. I get to play music with my friends (a different set) regularly, and spend part of four days a week teaching kids to read and do advanced mathematics. I was lucky enough to be able to make a good living doing what I wanted to do--work as part of a group of people protecting and restoring San Francisco Bay--and I'm lucky enough to still be doing that.

And for an hour or so a day, I refute bullshit from the right. It really makes them mad, and they generally resort to insults or groundless claims. It amuses me greatly, but it isn't as challenging, or joyful, as teaching a kid to read.

My goal was to retire early enough to continue windsurfing every day and spend the rest of my time doing something useful. It wasn't to make money or run for office--and I consider myself much more successful than I would have been continuing to seek money and power in business or government. Even better, I work with people whose primarily motive is to make their corner of the world a better place, and they are a lot better class of people to be around than money grubbers and selfish libertarians.

Now your second point Matty, when will I stop pointing out racism? For you, after years of bigotted comments involving homophobia, misogyny, anti-immigrant insults, anti-black comments, and holding Barrack Obama to a fundamentally different standard than George Bush? I probably won't happen. Maybe a year of reasoned criticism rather than slurs, a full apology, and a year spent in an AIDS ward cleaning bed pans to atone for your karmic debt might do it. You might consider it, you would be much happier, and your experience being around caregivers might teach you about different and higher order values.

For the Republican party? Well, if you listen to the blues you might know that when pigs fly. But when the social messages from Republicans involve using videos of poor white meth addicts from rural areas rather than black teenagers to lecture us about the dangers of poverty and hopelessness. When the right wingers on the site recognize what a meta-message is, and have some concern about passing one along that has a racial undertone. When the party has rebuked Tom Tancredo and Arpaio. When Republicans apologize for wasting money with anti-immigrant legislation in Arizona that loses on all but one point before a conservative Supreme Court. When Republican ops in southern states and Ohio have not lost a case in over four years involving voter rights or drawing legislative districts where the court case found a disproportionate impact on minority voting rights. You see, that's what bigotry is about--targeting black voters and trying to minimize their ability to vote in order to have a better chance of winning the presidential election is bigotry--and the official policy of what was once the party of Lincoln.

But obsessing about mac doesn't hide the poverty of the content of your views, and in particular my comment about Ryan. He is a fraud. His family made lots of money using their political connections to secure a series of contracts from the government. He has been a professional politician his whole life--the polar opposite of mrgybe's infatuation with amateurs supported by the Tea Party. He had a chance by participating in the Bowles and Simpson effort to create a long-term debt reduction plan. Everyone knew that something had to give on the entitlement side and on the tax side--but not in the middle of a severe recession. Anyone who can do basic math understands that you can stimulate the economy with either a tax cut for spenders or deficit spending--but the bills will eventually come due. But Ryan saw more value in being a demagogue than in working on a bi-partisan plan. He is, in a word, a fraud. But no substantive rejoinder from the righties--just more insults. Bring them on, but don't be surprised to get some back. You must know by now that I'm just not easily bullied.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:
Mike, you are a total ass.
You forgot the "hole" part
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3122

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote

Quote:
The funny thing, which I've pointed out before, is that you guys don't understand people that are different from you. You can't comprehend that different people are motivated by different things, and it isn't always money or organizational power. You don't understand the value of diversity, in ways of thinking, in the nature of the values that motivate you and the like. I have/have had enough of both money and power to know that isn't the path to happiness.


Mac...very eloquently stated. It is ironic, on a forum of windsurfers, that one would need to offer this explanation.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 4455

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It certainly is one explanation.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4931

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not forget how this thread was started, by me giving praise to the new faces in the Republican party, Latinos, Blacks, Indians, and others who are the future of this country , and I embrace anyone who shares the same values and beliefs I was raised on.
Mac if I was a bigot or racist I am certainly doing the wrong sports, most of my windsurfing and kiting friends are Brazilians, Israeles, Russians, Puerto Rican, and others. I should have stuck to swamp buggy racing.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 11282
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such an elegant defense of Ryan convinced me that he is not a fraud; he is saying exactly what you guys want to believe, no matter what the facts. Mac said he is a fraud--Matty and mrgybe defended him by drawing on their knowledge of his history and positions and saying---absolutely nothing.

Come on, you guys were so obsessed by my pulling your chain that you had me a bitter frustrated man, passed over for promotion, etc. etc. Here's a hint--I survived a car crash that killed two other people, nearly killed my wife, and where I thought for sure I was dead. It affected what I want to do with the rest of my life--but it also is true that safety regulations saved my life. That's right, the vague nonsense that you guys parrot about curbing regulations? Many of those regulations actually save lives. Of course, you are unaware that as many regulations were promulgated by Bush--the Administration must promulgate regulations when Congress passes a law. If you knew anything about law and regulation you would blame Congress, not Obama--but you haven't named a single specific regulation that you object to, or the Congressional law that required it--it's just a way of hating Obama that doesn't directly relate to the color of his skin.

Matty--if you want people to not think you are a bigot, and they tell you you keep saying offensive, homophobic things like "your girlfriend Obama," then stop saying those kinds of things--and get busy with the bedpans. You'll find a better group of people--with different values. You might even try listening to them.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 11282
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bench looks great? The best speaker at the GOP convention was Ann Romney. But Michelle Obama kicked her butt, and Clinton took on the whole crew and called out Ryan for the snake he is.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3122

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac...Of convention speeches, I was only able to see Mrs. Obama, Hickenlooper and Clinton. So, I do not have much comparison.

I never really liked Clinton...But, I have to say...He is a master at playing his audience. I thought his speech was exceptional politics. Mrs. Obama's speech was also very good.

I had hopes that CO Gov. Hickenlooper would be a bit more dynamic. But, part of what makes him a good Gov. is his low key, nonconfrontational style. Not a great style for a partisan party gathering.
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