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cannot get weight forward on jibe entry
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
isobras wrote:
2. By the time the wide, coasting, planing, running-downwind jiber exits his style of jibe, my guy will be 100 yards ahead and 50 yards upwind of him. What did my guy trade?


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Cough, cough Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Choke, choke, gasp. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Stop it, you are killing me.

Coachg

Sorry, Coach, but I back that up every day on the river. Realize that in this specific case, "your guy", by definition, is running downwind through a looong arc, tiptoeing around on his board, coasting with his board almost flat rail to rail, running his hands all over his mast and boom arms, all while "my guy", by definition, is turning around at 1/10th the radius, is coasting for only one or two seconds if that, and crosses his own wake at full speed before "his guy" has even gotten his board past downwind, let alone jibed his sail. My guy lost <10 feet of ground compared to >100 feet for his intermediate wide jiber, and is moving faster the entire time, at something like 35 feet per second.

No exaggeration.
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WATUPWITU



Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huh, i leave for a few days and come back to you guys arguing with i-osb (a waste of time by the way as he almost never learns anything) about things that have nothing to do with the OP problem, weight forward in a "transition". Laughing
but have fun....
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tweeky



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:

No exaggeration.



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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1999

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
at something like 35 feet per second. No exaggeration.

Which is why I was laughing so hard. 35 feet per second is not even 24 mph. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a tight beam reach to beam reach jibe, a lot of centrifugal force, just not a lot of speed.

Coachg
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scargo wrote:
the Dasher video really did the trick for me.


If you like Dasher, check out an ABK clinic if you have the chance. The teaching style and skill-building-on-skill methods are nearly identical. Dasher taught me to jibe (took me four trips to Aruba to go from no jibe at all to consistently planing)...he told me to check out an ABK when back in the states, as the methodology is the same.

_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
isobras wrote:
at something like 35 feet per second. No exaggeration.

Which is why I was laughing so hard. 35 feet per second is not even 24 mph. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a tight beam reach to beam reach jibe, a lot of centrifugal force, just not a lot of speed.

Now yer playing parsed word games, Coach. Shame on you.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WATUPWITU wrote:
huh, i leave for a few days and come back to you guys arguing with i-osb ... about things that have nothing to do with the OP problem, weight forward in a "transition" ...

Um, dude ... yer arguing with i-osb.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

Go to the PWA web site and watch some videos of their slalom races and you will see various ways of rounding a mark to gain an advantage on the competition. Most seem to do best with a large radius gybe while at times a tight short radius gybe (to gain upwind advantage) does offer an advantage. However, for the the short radius turn to work, they have to get back up to speed really fast or they are toast. The wind pretty much determines what works best.

A lot also depends on the angle of the following reach to the next mark. If it's a full reach, a tight gybe can be useless. On the other hand, if they have to pinch to get to the next mark, a tight gybe may be an advantage if they don't loose too much speed on the tight turn. This usually isn't the case and the reaches are typically long so even if you loose a few yards down wind with a large radius turn, it can be made up on the next 1/3 mile reach.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embo's not racing.

A tight jibe, to me, refers to the radius, not the net angle carved. Surely a 180-degree high-g carve will scrub off speed, but there's no reason a 90-degree high-g carve needs to lose any noticeable speed. After all, it links two powered-up broad reaches -- the fastest point of sail -- with well under two seconds, as little as one second, of unpowered coasting if ya don't waste time fondling the rig and walking around on the board. For that very reason, the same sail-NONhandling approach works in marginal winds, as it lets us keep milking the breeze for any available power throughout almost the whole jibe, as in milkmilkmilkmilkflipmilkmilkmilkmilk. Again, not much time to lose the plane, and it also works in non-planing snap jibes.

Besides, it's just "plane" fun to cruise through a slow planing jibe, on flat water or down a swell/wave face, as our sail rotates from starboard to port in mid-air as we pick our nose with one hand and scratch an itch with the other, then drop both hands onto the new boom side as it just sits there in space, waiting for us. Ditto a WFO slashing jibe, except it doesn't give us much time to pick or scratch.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link to the PWA. They are currently slalom racing in Alacati, Turkey, and the video that pops up, plus some of the other videos provide a really good look at how the pros do it. Their goal is to round the mark (gybe) as fast as possible while maintaining control and as much speed as possible.
http://www.pwaworldtour.com/
No one is doing lay down gybes and at best, their masts stay at least 3 meters off the water. All loose at least half or more of their speed while doing the gybes, and these are the best sailors in the world.
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