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cannot get weight forward on jibe entry
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: cannot get weight forward on jibe entry Reply with quote

I've always got more weight on my back foot than front when entering a jibe...so it's killing my speed. I've got decent speed going in, I think...feels that way, anyway. How do I get my front foot loaded and still initiate the turn with the back foot?
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 502

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pull down on the boom with the front hand.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let the sail pull your weight forward and into the turn, thus onto that inside foot as you curtsy. Your front hand should be as far out in front of you as you can extend it, and your knees should be driving well forward and into the turn. IOW, even though your torso should be upright (curtsy, not bow), your center of gravity -- especially your knees and hips -- should shift strongly forward and into the turn. The forward and inward shift of your pelvis as you transition from the reach to the jibe entry should be OBVIOUS to you and to observers. If it is, and if your back foot is up near the front strap, your weight will move well forward and to the inside and your board will both turn and keep planing. It's now up to you to jibe the sail actively, rather than waiting for the wind to do it for you, before everything grinds to a halt and you have to restart the engine.

And unless you plan to do a few tricks while your big board glides casually through the jibe, or if you're on a little board, Git 'Er Done. You won't need to push down on the boom if you jam that board and rig through their turns so quickly there's no time to lose your plane or start bouncing.

I also see a problem in your speed description. Just like "I think I'm downhauled enough", "I think I'm going fast enough" means you probably aren't. Unless you're on a huge board with endless glide, "thinking" you have "decent" speed doesn't cut it. If you don't feel like you're producing a vapor trail -- "like your shadow is two seconds behind you", as the man said -- you probably aren't going fast enough to do all the crap a jibing newbie needs to orchestrate before his plane stalls. Merely planing isn't good enough.

Mike \OO/
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jpf18



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 238
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: cannot get weight forward on jibe entry Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
I've always got more weight on my back foot than front when entering a jibe...so it's killing my speed. I've got decent speed going in, I think...feels that way, anyway. How do I get my front foot loaded and still initiate the turn with the back foot?


Hard to say from far but it's likely your butt's sticking out while you look at the sail? Sure way to dig in the tail of the board.
So: Hips in towards the mast, chin up, turn your head to look where you're going. Fight the temptation to look at the sail, you'll end up sticking out your butt and killing your speed.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To reinforce some of what has been said and one more thing.

Speed, you will never have enough. When you think: oh crap!, then you have enough speed.

A problem I occasionally have - at the beginning of the gybe, you should sheet in (bring the foot of the sail in line with the board - critical if you have good speed). However, when doing this, there is a tendency to lean back as up pull in the sail. It's a little counterintuitive, but this is when you BEND your knees, lean forward, press down on the boom and make the carve.

If your speed isn't great, then you may need to sheet out a bit more as you carve to maintain power. With good speed, sheeting in reduces drag since you will be moving faster than the wind.
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jpf18



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 238
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
However, when doing this, there is a tendency to lean back as up pull in the sail.

Bearing off while sheeting in helps minimize that.

Quote:
It's a little counterintuitive, but this is when you BEND your knees, lean forward, press down on the boom and make the carve.

It took me awhile to realize that I can have it "all wrong" even with knees bent. Personally, I find the focus on bending the knees some of the worst advice. When the hips are pulled in and the chin raised, it just happens so that the knees bend. Not that it's incorrect or that there weren't benefits, but it's coincidental to the "right" moves. But that's just me and how I look at it. Same with bow-and-arrow BTW, never worked for me learning.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a carve isn't working, I find that consciously bending my knees dramatically improves the jibe and makes everything else "right". And if the "bow and arrow" picture doesn't work, think "point'n'tickle". Point your front hand towards the exit of your carve while you tickle your ribs with the back hand ... whatever it takes to get you to put the mast as far forward and into the turn as you can while sheeting in until the foot of the sail hits your back leg ... presuming a fully powered, full speed jibe.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1931

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: cannot get weight forward on jibe entry Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
How do I get my front foot loaded and still initiate the turn with the back foot?
How do you unhook before you start your jibe? Do you stand up to unhook or hang way out and barely raise your hips? Do you initiate the jibe by stomping your back foot on the leeward rail or gently placing it there? Where are you placing your back foot & where is it pointing?

Most people kill the speed of their jibe in the setup, long before they even start their jibe.

Coachg
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have the clew along the centerline on the reach before entry...it's close, but still sheeted out a bit. I'm well beyond just planing, though I do not have the foot of the sail against my back shin when trying to oversheet on entry.

jpf18 wrote:

Hard to say from far but it's likely your butt's sticking out while you look at the sail? Sure way to dig in the tail of the board.
So: Hips in towards the mast, chin up, turn your head to look where you're going. Fight the temptation to look at the sail, you'll end up sticking out your butt and killing your speed.


I may be doing a weight-lifting squat, rather than a strict curtsey. Even so, the strict curtsey would leave my feet evenly weighted, I think.

Isn't looking ahead of the turn looking through the sail (or at an extreme, over your back shoulder at the wake)? My thought is that turning your head in that direction forces the shoulders to rotate to follow, helping to sheet in the sail...or rather, if you don't, you'll sheet out.

techno900 wrote:
A problem I occasionally have - at the beginning of the gybe, you should sheet in (bring the foot of the sail in line with the board - critical if you have good speed). However, when doing this, there is a tendency to lean back as up pull in the sail. It's a little counterintuitive, but this is when you BEND your knees, lean forward, press down on the boom and make the carve.


Back foot pointed across the board, or at an angle roughly parallel to the front strap? It sounds like each of you are doing the latter, allowing your hips to point more toward the mast.

isobars: Aren't you additionally shoving your inside hip into the turn, like bumping a car door closed?
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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bumping the car door closed is too much motion. i never got it until i got my hips in towards the sail. this forces you to fall (push)on the boom instead of pull on it with butt out(brakes on). oversheet will make sail pull (fall) forward so you don't have to bump the car door to move forward. look where you want to turn. Guy Cribb(Intuition) videos seemed to help me the most.
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