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Where is the smooth wind? as opposed to gusty...
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1288
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that's why I have a residence in HR. More hours of wind, than
anywhere else I know. Still thinking about a residence on Maui though ;*)
the water is so nice and warm.

-Craig

isobras wrote:
cgoudie1 wrote:
Maui definitely has the most days of steady wind I have encountered

Forget the word "steady" for a moment and ask which has more hours of wind each season? That might close the gap.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the rest of us who hear you guys in the gorge complain about the gorge being gusty have to laugh. The gorge is not gusty; lake sailing in the mid-west is gusty, the great lakes are gusty, Canada is gusty, pre-hurricane wind on the coast is gusty, but the gorge is not gusty.

As for steady wind?
Corpus Christi bay
Bird Island
South Padre
La Ventana
Lake Arenal
St. Martin
Bahia Salinas (Costa Rica)
Punta San Carlos
Malahide (Dublin, Ireland)

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jimoak



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easterlies at Stevenson are steady for Gorge wind. That said gusty westerlies
are more fun for me. The Hatchery has had some decent swell lately with gusty wind. Here's my tips for smoothing out gusty days.

Set your booms high so you can hang from them to weight the mast base. Then your lighter on your feet so you don't sink the tail as you wait for a puff. When that puff comes BEAR OFF. That's the beauty of westerlies the current allows you bear off ,ride a swell and you don't need to point like crazy to "make up for it". Once you get good at this, you can rig a smaller sail and still plane early. Rig your sail full with less downhaul and outhaul for power.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
But, really, Rob ... sell the dog if necessary to buy modern sails. They make a huge difference.

I can almost guarantee that no one but the OP wants to wade through this, but I haven't the time to shorten it.

Maybe this next swap meet can save your dog, because "modern" began several years ago and the Labor Day weekend swap meet will have some great deals on top-quality late model used sails. I've seen entire Gorge quivers of marvelous, new-looking gust-busters go unsold despite asking prices well below the price of ONE new 4.2.

Even if you don't buy new sails, these ideas may help you pick appropriate used ones (presuming I'm doing the right thing). I have my sails designed and built expressly with gust tolerance in mind (and built in the winter to save money). I used to specify aramid leeches and X-Ply windows to minimize stretch expressly so every gust would transfer directly into acceleration, and once upon a time I preferred very deep drafts for maximum low end power to “torque” me out of wind holes. But I got tired of feeling like I just got rear-ended at a traffic light by every big gust with those unforgiving zero-stretch materials, and deep-draft off-the-line pulling power comes at the expense of top end speed and biggest gust stability, so several years ago I tried and loved a sail specifically designed to be rigged flatter and run bigger to achieve lower drag, greater top speed, a lighter feel for superior maneuverability, and far greater draft stability in huge gusts.

The idea is to take a couple of mph off its bottom wind range, add many mph to its top wind range, and rig a half meter bigger, for a significantly wider overall wind range for any one sail. This isn’t a new concept; Pryde broke this ground in about 1992 with their new “race sail” whose label came right out and said it: “Rig this 5.8 for 5.0 conditions”. That worked like a charm for upper wind range and still does, but nobody buys rigid, flat, extensively cammed race sails for their maneuverability. What most of us peons want for our Gorge B&J sailing is broad wind range AND high maneuverability.

That’s achievable once we get over our fear of rigging a 5.0 where we used to use a 4.5. Raising my planing threshold by a couple of mph (for a given size) while adding far more mph of gust tolerance broadened each sail's useful, comfortable wind range very noticeably ... I'd say quite dramatically, given how comfortable and maneuverable and stable my 6.2 remains when most guys my size are rigging down to 4.2s. Changes I've made recently just for gust-busting include vinyl windows in the 3.2 and 3.7 sizes (used primarily when the gusts are pushing 50 and tend to have sharp edges) and dacron leeches* in my whole quiver. As long as those vinyl windows are quite small and the sail’s primary load strip is high-tech/low-stretch, the result can be described more accurately as “forgiving” than as “stretchy”. In controlled amounts, this “forgiveness” affects gust (transient) response without reducing speed (steady state) potential … for us mortals, anyway. The only low-end-power-boosting concession I made to my present quiver was to have the loft increase the seam-shaping below the boom to deepen the draft there for a little extra planing power in lulls and coming out of power-robbing maneuvers.

* Most modern sails boost upper wind range via twist aided by extremely floppy leeches, often clear down to the boom. That certainly works, but another concept is to aid twist by using leech material with controlled forgiveness … i.e., more stretch than reinforced monofilm. Dacron achieves that.

Executed properly, these three features achieved just what I wanted: the sails dull the leading edges of big wind spikes rather than hit me over the head with them, their upper wind behavior limit (where my back hand gets overloaded by draft/COE drift) is VASTLY extended (to maybe a few times per season), and most ordinary recreational sailors out there rig up and down much more often than I need to. I certainly COULD rig down sooner when the wind builds, but damned if I'm going to cut a great session short just to optimize my sail size. As long as I'm planing through every hole, my maneuvering is not restricted (or my body threatened) by excess power in the gusts, and I can usually rip way upwind and deep downwind, I don't care what number is printed on my sail.

Those objectives are obtainable in a number of sails built in the last few years and can be had for very reasonable, sometimes dirt cheap, prices at the season's last swap meet (and in consignment shops) if buying new at a 30% winter discounts really would mean selling your dog. My bottom line is to search the swaps and consignment shops for sails designed for forgiveness rather than instantaneously knee-jerking to every gust. Racerhedz need the latter; you and I don’t. Young tendons and joints don’t mind the latter; my old ones sometimes object. And square-edged gusts are fatiguing to everyone.

You’d be amazed, and your dog would be overjoyed, if all you did was buy a Gorge quiver -- 3.2 -5.2 or so -- of Northwave Surflites built in 2002 or later. I sailed my orphaned, dusty 2002 3.7 Surflite all day just last month and never noticed one gust; the damned thing just pulled like a draft horse and maneuvered like a butterfly, with zero twitchiness, for many hours on end. It made me wonder whether I’m kidding myself buying newer sails. Bang for buck, you couldn’t do much, if any, better. In fact, that day made up my mind for me about what sail I wanted for my 2012 3.2, my all-out nuke day gust buster to replace my aramid/X-Ply 2010 ZX: a 2002 Surflite with carbon battens and vinyl window.

For an even greater bang but greater bucks, look for something newer designed to be run flatter than the deep-drafted tractors. Floppy-leeched wonders work fine, but my much flatter, dacron leeched Northwave ZXLs do the same job more elegantly, in my OPINION. HUGE disclaimer: I haven’t tried other brands in about 4 years now, but I discuss them every windy day with many guys and gals who have tried many brands. One such fellow bought and rejected three different brands of quivers in one season and came back to NWs in most sizes; he chose a Sailworks Hucker for his largest Gorge sail, a 5.6 or 6.6.

Mike \OO/
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,
Ya I don't need to be jerked all over the place, I just want to get the most enjoyment for my limited bucks.
I will definately be at the next swap with a few of them bucks.
(either that or I'll need to buy a trainer kite!)
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jimoak



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the brands I've been on in the past 15 years Simmer, Ezzy and now Realwind handle gusty conditions best if you rig your sail full like I just described. This has been my experience.

I drive a black Scion XB and sail Realwind gear.
If you see me just ask for tips. Sailing gusty winds is a fun challenge. Keeping an open mind about the conditions really helps.

Here's a good story. The Hatchery got very gusty and slightly northerly late one summer day a few years ago. There were guys of average ability on 3.7 to 4.7 sails out there. The 3.7's were slogging when the 4.7's were slogging. A friend( not a novice by any means) came in and said" it's so gusty it's unsailable". I said "yes, but the starboard ramps are great" and kept sailing.
Out there in that gusty wind Nathan Mershon was in front of me. A puff came and he threw the best double forward loop I'd ever seen, nearly planed out of it! I talked to him later. He just got on the water and was on a 3.7. I guess no one told him it was to gusty to sail.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but them silly freestylers need only a gust here and there to light their fire. Some are quite happy, and rig small to achieve, planing only once per reach, just long enough for a trick now and then, even if that means slogging most of the time. We greedy, mortal, lesser B&Jers wanna plane most, if not all, of the time. Wink
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understainding was if I make a fuller sail (bagging) it would also cut down on my ability to sail upwind. Sometimes I have trouble with that and if the extra fullness doesn't make up (get me planing) for the ground I am losing by slogging, it isn't worth it. Thought I rigged big yesterday afternoon but had to let out some outhaul when I got to the other side of the river...the wind meter was way off and/or 30 minutes late.. oops.

Id much rather be over powered and dead tired than no planing all day...

2002-2008 quiver of B to B+ condition sails would make me very happy and it would likely be affordable. I have saved/hidden $500 for that purpose.... I really only need 4.5, 5.5, 6.5 for me and 4.0, 6.0 for the kid.. maybe a 7.5 for the 160liter board to share when the wind is doing nothing...
I expected I'd be in it over 1k by the time we get what we need...

it may sound dumb, but I like the mast foot protector built into the ezzy sail that I have, the others have no way to add the base pad...
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jimoak



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocRobster wrote:
My understainding was if I make a fuller sail (bagging) it would also cut down on my ability to sail upwind. Sometimes I have trouble with that and if the extra fullness doesn't make up (get me planing) for the ground I am losing by slogging, it isn't worth it.



No, a fuller sail goes upwind fine.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3622
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how bout this?
http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=163&siteID=6877
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