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grayson



Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 74
Location: Burlington, VT

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evans wrote:
It's time to cull the heard. Bottom line there's just too many people on the planet.

critter wrote:
"...too many people on the planet." That's exactly the problem. Everything else is a band-aid solution. I can just see how that one would play out on the political stage> yikes!

Along those lines, The Onion said it best....

Scientists: 'Look, One-Third Of The Human Race Has To Die For Civilization To Be Sustainable, So How Do We Want To Do This?'

Interesting how amusing the harsh truth can be when spelled out by the good folks at The Onion. Confused
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wavedawg



Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to get along-board with anyone!!! TOO MANY PEOPLE in the zone & no room to turn!! And those sharp teeth nibblin' at yer toes - Yikes!!

Amazing how many opinions get posted here without any real facts.

However, two of these have real merit:

Climate Change is real, it's here now, and hiding your dumb-ass head
in the sand won't make it go away.

Evans is right - Too many people, need to cull the herd. Climate
Change will take care of that eventually, but it won't be fun for future
generations.

Any doubters to the climate change theory need only look at how different the wind is at your favorite launch!!

We all bear responsibility for this and are therefore obligated to take whatever measures we reasonably can to limit/reduce/eliminate our individual and collective carbon footprint, for ourseves, our brothers and sisters, and future generations. If you disagree with this you are ignorant, in denial and likely have no conscience.

All that said, can we PLEASE get some WINDY days here so people will be a bit less hostile and have something more relevant to opine about on this WINDSURFING FORUM???!!!!
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WaterKook



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 1505
Location: The Dude abides!!!!!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fault!
Yes if I had more time in the foot-straps I would be a much calmer person!!!!

Best thing going on right now is Shark Week!!!

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jkrug



Joined: 30 Apr 2000
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wavedawg wrote:
Amazing how many opinions get posted here without any real facts.

.. Climate Change is real


you want real facts, but merely state climate change is real...uh, do you see the hypocrisy? are we to accept it just because you say it is so? sorry, i don't (and please don't point me to countless websites where others of your 'religion' blog..i don't care...those aren't facts; i also could point you to websites with exact opposite 'proofs').

now if you meant that natural climate change (as opposed to manmade) is real, i couldn't agree with you more. the climate always changes, and there's nothing we can do about it.

but if you figure out a way for mankind to create wind (real wind, not the kind blowing around in this thread..and not via large fans), please let us all know.
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkrug wrote:

the climate always changes, and there's nothing we can do about it.


I can seriously agree with you about this.

Climate is changing.

But its interesting to see that it's changing far faster than previous 1000+ yr. trends, according to glacial deposits measuring levels of CO2 and other elements.

Next asteroid will clean us up just fine........... Shocked
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys not realize that this topic has been beaten to death in the politics thread? You could type many hundreds of pages and say not one thing new. Now add the scores of authoritative books on AGW and you're looking at thousands of pages, with hundreds of peer-reviewed references. Then add the expert debates in live public forums. Then, of course, there are the authoritative websites, plus the BS websites.

Just go read Lomborg and get back to us with the big picture. Otherwise this is all just redundant, repetitive, repeated, oft-written, same 'ol finger-flapping.
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zeppy



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Brookline, MA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wavedawg and others have got it right. Jkrug, I don't know who you are but you have clearly overdosed a large bottle of denial. The debate about whether the climate change the earth is currently experiencing is being caused by and/or exacerbated by humans has largely ended amongst mainstream scientists and turned to whether climate change can be linked to specific climatological events, such as hurricanes, heat waves, and droughts. For example, just last month one of the few remaining holdouts changed course after, in his words, " an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists." Richard A. Muller, The Conversion of a Climate-Change Skeptic, New York Times, July 28, 2012, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html. Indeed, Muller's work led him to conclude that climate change is "real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct." But he didn't stop there, stating, in his words, "Iím now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause." While Muller remains skeptical about the specific climatological events others have attributed to climate change, the fact that the climate change we are experiencing today is caused by humans is simply no longer debatable by informed individuals.

On the issue of linking specific events to climate change, a study being published this week in fact persuasively links climate change to specific climatological events, such as heat waves, etc. In a preview of that study in a Washington Post Op-Ed, Hanson, one of the study's authors, notes that the "analysis shows that it is no longer enough to say that global warming will increase the likelihood of extreme weather and to repeat the caveat that no individual weather event can be directly linked to climate change. To the contrary, our analysis shows that, for the extreme hot weather of the recent past, there is virtually no explanation other than climate change." James E. Hansen, Climate change is here ó and worse than we thought, Washington Post, August 3, 2012, http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/climate-change-is-here--and-worse-than-we-thought/2012/08/03/6ae604c2-dd90-11e1-8e43-4a3c4375504a_story.html. The editorial goes on to note that "[t]he odds that natural variability created these extremes [events] are minuscule, vanishingly small. To count on those odds would be like quitting your job and playing the lottery every morning to pay the bills." So go ahead, since you're apparently satisfied with chasing unicorns, quit your job, play those odds, but play them on your own. And while you're waiting for your daily numbers to magically appear, educate yourself. You can start with these articles and the scientific studies on which they are based. You might also learn from this 210 page report (slightly outdated now, but based on a review of thousands of scientific studied) as well: U.S. Envtl. Protection Agency (EPA), Technical Support Document for Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings for Greenhouse Gases Under Section 202(a) of Clean Air Act 150-51 (2009), available at http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/Downloads/endangerment/Endangerment_TSD.pdf.

Unfortunately, we on the East Coast are already experiencing the adverse impacts of climate change. In another recent study, for example, scientists have determined that "[t]he seas along the East Coast from North Carolina to New England are rising three to four times faster than the global average." David Abel, Rising Sea Level a Threat to East, Boston Globe, June 25, 2012, http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/06/25/sea_level_rising_3_4_times_faster_along_east_coast_than_globally_government_report_finds/. This is not the stuff of science fiction, but rather, today's reality. So please, keep your uninformed thoughts to yourself (or at least between yourself and Sen. Inhofe) and stop calling people idiots who do not agree with your head-in-the-sand positions.
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that Zeppy!

I would speculate that our local weather SW winds have been shut down due to the Greenland cap melting and releasing air to promote the positive North Atlantic Oscillation , which gives us back door cold fronts here in the North East.

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/pi/NAO/
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2463

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i import stuff. even out of newer containers, the packages are quite often filthy with dust. the outer packages can be quite nasty. the chinese, in their industrial culture, do little to keep their environment healthy. how do i/we ask them to clean up their own act? i dunno.

for those that want more clinical proof that we are in a GW cycle, i wonder how much smog one may wish to breath in before that's enough proof? LA. hong kong, mexico city, etc. how's about the next time one flies into a large city like those, one pays attention to the smog layer that one has to re-enter from above?

look at all the flora and fauna we import from other parts of the world: snake fish, pythons, brazilian peppers, melaluca, those giant carp in the mississippi, etc. no, we don't excrete in our own kitchen do we? we are only as self destructive as our ignorance and denial remains.

oh, i almost forgot. the Mediterranean is nearly dead. i wouldn't eat any fish from that body of water. seen the open sewers dumping into it from all over italy, and heard about far more in its surrounds. we are choking ourselves to death?

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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It is increasingly clear that doubling CO2 is unlikely to increase global temperature more than about one degree Celsius, not the much larger values touted by the global warming establishment. In fact, CO2 levels are below the optimum levels for most plants, and there are persuasive arguments that the mild warming and increased agricultural yields from doubling CO2 will be an overall benefit for humanity. Let us debate and deal with serious, real problems facing our society, not elaborately orchestrated, phony ones, like the trumped-up need to drastically curtail CO2 emissions."

Thus concludes the article in today's WSJ at http://tinyurl.com/9hgjtql , authored by:
Roger W. Cohen, Fellow, American Physical Society, La Jolla, Calif.

William Happer, Princeton University

Richard S. Lindzen, M.I.T.

Obviously the AGW political hawks will deny those men's credibility based strictly on their conclusion, but that's just more evidence of their ideological blindness.
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