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isobras
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | Our friend from Belize was attempting to characterize as stupid anyone who has the temerity to question the President's ability. |
Ability to do what? What (positive) ability has he displayed?
His major part in the ACA was, "Nancy, write an ACA and ram it through your 60-partisan majority".
His major part in killing OBL was, "Sic 'em, boys."
HIS economy is tanking.
He reads out loud real good.
He knows how to have "his people" set up a party ... and I don't mean the Democratic one.
Bottom line: I don't ever recall seeing anyone to the right of the head of the DNC (Dean or Wasserman-Shitz) say he was a professor or an effective leader/manager. The former is a lie, the latter not demonstrated even at 3.7 years and counting. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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LDHR,
My first post about the Bin Laden scenario was just a "righty" with simple speculation without any research as I said, but pointing out that there were many folks that did/do deserve credit for the success of the mission. My second post was to clarify my actual intent, which was to give credit to Obama since he is the commander in chief, but to point out that his role may not have been all that it was played up to be.
Regarding your comments:
| Quote: | | "... Fifteen months after Obama's initial "Get bin Laden" order, Panetta returned to the White House in August 2010 with good news. The CIA had discovered a multihouse compound in northeast Pakistan in which bin Laden's favorite courier was living. [..] Abbottabad is also home to Pakistan's leading military academy. From the moment Panetta appeared, Obama faced four major decisions: |
Do you think the CIA wasn't looking for Bin Laden until Obama gave the order to Panetta? I think not, but neither of us really know.
| Quote: | | 1. When to act? Every day of delay increased the likelihood that bin Laden, if he was actually there, would escape. A leak in Washington that popped up on a blog or in the press would sound an alarm, causing him to flee. |
And you think this was a tough decision. If you know where he is, you move ASAP.
| Quote: | | 2. Who to include in the decisionmaking? Adding more people would reduce the chances that important dimensions of the operation would go unexamined. But every additional pair of eyes came with a mouth that could be the source of a leak. |
You include who you trust, but I can see how that could have been a dicey decision given Obama's cohorts.
| Quote: | | 3. How, exactly, to capture or kill bin Laden? Obama's menu had four entres: Predator drones with Hellfire missiles delivering 500-lb. bombs (like those used five months later to kill Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen); B-2 bombers with 2,000-lb. laser-guided bombs (like those used in late 2011 against Muammar Gaddafi in Libya); special forces on the ground; and a joint military operation with Pakistan. |
This is easy, you must confirm the kill or capture. Only one way to do that and that is with Seals on the ground. Some "dufus" may have offered up the other options, but it would have take 10 seconds to shoot them down.
| Quote: | | 4. Though this was first and foremost a matter of national security, any decision would have political consequences. Everyone involved knew Obama was "betting his presidency" on this issue, as a Deputy National Security Adviser put it. If Obama waited and OBL escaped, Obama would be savaged for fiddling while public enemy No. 1 vanished. If he acted and the operation failed, opponents would tar him as a second Jimmy Carter, recalling the failed 1980 attempt to rescue Americans held hostage in Iran." |
Only two options:
1. Go with success or go with failure
2. Don't try and the world discovers you don't have balls.
Tough decision for politicians, but not for the Seals. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| isobras wrote: | | ...say he was a professor... The former is a lie |
Mikey, I realize that you don't read my posts, but I thought you'd enjoy another point of view while you're not reading.
From Snopes.com:
I Was A Professor Of Law - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
Barack Obama was indeed a professor at the University of Chicago's Law School, a fact verified by that institution itself:
The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."
From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. |
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isobras
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | Do you think the CIA wasn't looking for Bin Laden until Obama gave the order to Panetta? I think not, but neither of us really know. |
Sure we do. Everyone watching the news has seen the director of the long-standing CIA Bin Laden division interviewed MANY times on TV over the past several years. The Tenth Mountain Division, among other large and small elite units, were on his ass since Day One.
Subtle hint to anyone who doesn't know these things:
YOU ARE BEING PLAYED AS FOOLS BY THE LEFT WING (i.e, MAINSTREAM BROADCAST AND PRINT) MEDIA.
| techno900 wrote: | | If you know where he is, you move ASAP. |
They "knew" for at least 15 months. To Obama's credit, they didn't move until they had not only hard proof (including an up close, personal, definitive photograph of him in an extremely rare outdoor stroll) but also no other choice that would provide the hard proof necessary to ascertain his death.
| techno900 wrote: | | If he acted and the operation failed, opponents would tar him as a second Jimmy Carter |
He is, but for other, obvious, reasons such as the economy.
Bumper sticker: It's the stupid economy! |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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These days with very divisive politics, particularly during a presidential cycle, the theme for Democrats and Republicans is to trivialize and marginalize the opponent. You have to wonder though, how does it sell?
So far, I don't think the right is doing a particularly good job, because so much of it isn't honest. All the socialist/Marxist nonsense from the fringe is simply nonsense, but even the stuff coming out of Romney and his campaign isn't even close to be convincing in my view.
Are folks on the left doing a good job? I wouldn't necessarily agree that they are. But, you have to judge each battleground based on its merit. Everyone has as past, and as some would like to think, hard promises are being made for the future.
What will the differing campaigns try to leverage off of, and then try to sell? As I suggested earlier, we have a rough road ahead until November.
In the case of President Obama role in taking out Bin Ladin, those on the right aren't cutting it with anything convincing. I don't know why they waste their time trying to sell such weak material. |
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NickB
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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swchandler, don't you think the conflicting messages of the rabid right here are plain pathetic?
Service men get caught with hookers, it's obviously Obama's fault! Service men kill the world's most wanted villain, Obama has nothing to do with it.
He can obviously do no right...
Something frightening is happening though. After years of enduring isobars' countless and senseless bullet points and numbered lists, it seems that this new character named isobras has discovered the "big bold fonts". I'm definitely not looking forward to him/her using those every time he/she get cranky.  |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Woof
_________________
/w\ |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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The most amusing mixed message is about the economy. The Republicans have blocked Keynesian spending--hoping in their patriotic way for continuing economic malaise. The Tea Party nuts were elected because of outrage over the bank bailout--which stopped an even worse collapse--and then have fought against any regulation of the bank practices that caused the problem in the first place.
Obama agreed to extend tax cuts--but because they are so weighted to the very wealthy in a consumer economy they did little good. So his implementation of moderate Republican policies is seen as socialism.
But the crowning irony of all is that the conservatives, who purport to hate government intervention even more than they hate Obama, are hating on Obama extra because he didn't make sure that the government fixed the economy.
That's what happens when you kick the RINO's out of the GOP. You open the gates to the asylum. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Its a total laugh watching you lame-ass righty's trying to discredit the president of the US. You all look like I did when I was bitching and whining through the Bush years, pathetic and weak. He's not a professor, he's not born in the US, he didnt get OBL, blah blah blah. Carry on. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| boggsman1 wrote: | | Its a total laugh watching you lame-ass righty's trying to discredit the president of the US. You all look like I did when I was bitching and whining through the Bush years, pathetic and weak. He's not a professor, he's not born in the US, he didnt get OBL, blah blah blah. Carry on. |
Just laugh at 'em, Boggys. That's what I do. The best free entertainment money can buy. Matty, Mr. G, Mr. B, Mikey -- they're even funnier than Brucie.  |
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