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Big Oil and citizenship
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2408

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stolen from facebook, stolen from Webster
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2742

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
Part of the description did say "thick skulled".

Why do you think conservatives are thick skulled? I've seen some who are quite bright and articulate. William F. Buckley, for example.

And David Brooks of the NYT is among my favorites.
.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this definition of liberal from Webster's 1913 dictionary was interesting.

Quote:
6. Free to excess; regardless of law or moral restraint; licentious
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprising that Techno would look down the list to the 6th definition--that is, the uncommon one--to disparage the liberals that he has trouble listening to.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the shoe fits....................

By the way, I have no trouble listening to liberals, it's what they say that is perplexing.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

liberal bullshit--talking points from the right. Pun intended.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to topic--can you trust the carbon industry? Not if you work for them:

Quote:
Oakland Tribune editorial © 2014 Bay Area News Group
POSTED: 02/24/2014 01:35:54 PM PST
UPDATED: 02/24/2014 01:40:58 PM PST

Message to Tesoro Refinery management: People don't trust you, and they never will if you keep stonewalling.

A pipe ruptured Feb. 12 at the company's refinery near Martinez. Two workers were airlifted to UC Davis Medical Center with first- and second-degree burns from spewing acid. To make matters worse, the pipe came apart in the exact same spot four days later.

Yet, somehow, Tesoro does not consider these serious injuries, wrongly questions the authority of the U.S. Chemical Safety Board to investigate and is refusing to cooperate with the agency's probe.

The company, after first granting the federal agency access, has blocked it from returning. When safety board investigators first arrived they found that the company was already altering the accident site, rather than preserving the evidence.

The Golden Eagle refinery owned by Tesoro just east of Martinez, Calif. (Staff archives)
The Golden Eagle refinery owned by Tesoro just east of Martinez, Calif. (Staff archives)
It smells of a horrible cover-up by a company with a long history of safety lapses. It threatens to undermine decades of work in Contra Costa to build trust between the county's refineries, the community and the government agencies responsible for protecting public and worker safety.

The state Division of Occupational Safety and Health has issued an order barring Tesoro from restarting the failed unit. In it, the agency outlines inadequate protections for workers, employees' fearing for their safety and intimidation by management.

This same refinery was the site of a 1999 accident that killed four workers. While the plant was under different ownership then, Tesoro has had its own problems there and at its Anacortes, Wash., refinery, where seven people were killed.

At the Contra Costa facility in just one year, 2012, significant incidents included two fires, a sulfuric acid release, a vapor release, and an unspecified leak, according to the Chemical Safety Board.

As for Anacortes, the board concluded in a damning report last month, the fatal explosion and fire there resulted from a "complacent" attitude toward flammable leaks and occasional fires. The board found that Tesoro had failed to correct a history of hazardous conditions.

It's imperative that Tesoro cooperate with the safety board. No other government agency has done, and is doing, such thoughtful and thorough examinations of refinery accidents and the industry's safety practices.

As we saw from its investigation of the 2012 Chevron refinery explosion in Richmond, the safety board provides analysis that is critical to the prevention of future explosions.

People's lives and safety are at stake inside the gates and in the surrounding neighborhoods. Unfortunately, Tesoro's response belies industry claims that it wants to make its plants safer, and that undermines those operators who are making legitimate and serious strides on safety. It is time for a close examination of Tesoro's processes.


Of course today's news is that employees were not wearing their masks as safety equipment, and employees feel that they may lose their jobs if they complain about safety procedures.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. But no one has yet been convicted--so it must be ok.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno continues to blow his horn about crappy reporting forgiving spilling oil and not reporting it. Here was his justification:

Quote:
News stories that don't include the pertinent facts are worthless. 300 spills seems like a lot. Well that depends on what constitutes a reportable spill. The readers would be better informed if they knew a little more about spills, including if they damaged the environment or not, or how costly the clean ups were.

Stories that just offer up big numbers and imply that things are bad, just aren't real stories without supporting facts. Just a lot of liberal hot air? You be the judge. ...

Go back and read the article you posted from Bismarck ND and you will see that it says that the spills were "not reported to the public". What does that mean? Not reported to the EPA, the State or local news? Reported to no one? Again, it's the crappy, misleading news writing that is my issue, not abiding by or breaking EPA or State laws. That's it, nothing more. Now do you get it?



And then, in another thread:

As usual, you never listen, you just twist the subject to support your various band wagon issues. ONE FINAL TIME - my issue was with the reporting, not the 300 unreported spill in California. The lack of specific details, which would have informed and educated the reader were missing. Crappy reporting, that's it. Now it's time for you to do your Chubby Checker again.

Well, let's look at the facts. Here is the lead of one of the original stories in the North Dakota press:

Quote:
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — When a pipeline rupture sent more than 20,000 barrels of crude spewing across a North Dakota wheat field, it took nearly two weeks for officials to tell the public about it.

The break in a Tesoro Corp. pipeline happened in a remote area, and officials say no water was contaminated or wildlife hurt. But environmentalists are skeptical and say it's an example of a boom industry operating too cozily with state regulators.

"It shows an attitude of our current state government and what they think of the public," said Don Morrison, executive director of the Dakota Resource Council, an environmental-minded landowner group with more than 700 members in North Dakota. "It's definitely worrisome. There is a pattern in current state government to not involve the public."


So Tesoro--who is now refusing to let the Feds onto its refinery where sulfuric acid sprayed workers--reported the spill within a day, as required--but the State held the information close. The concern here is that the State agency is captured by the industry it regulates. In support of that, another article notes that North Dakota, developing and shipping a lot of oil, doesn't report the spills to the public:

Quote:
BISMARCK, N.D. -- North Dakota, the nation's No. 2 oil producer behind Texas, recorded nearly 300 oil pipeline spills in less than two years, state documents show. None was reported to the public, officials said.

According to records obtained by The Associated Press, the pipeline spills - many of them small - are among some 750 "oil field incidents" that have occurred since January 2012 without public notification.

"That's news to us," said Don Morrison, director of the Dakota Resource Council, an environmental-minded landowner group with more than 700 members in North Dakota.

(MORE: Details About the North Dakota Oil Spill)

Dennis Fewless, director of water quality for the state Health Department, said regulators are reviewing the state's policies for when to publicly report such incidents after a massive spill was discovered last month in northwestern North Dakota by a wheat farmer. State and company officials kept it quiet for 11 days - and only said something after the AP asked about it.

Soon after the AP published its report Friday, the Health Department announced it is testing a website to publish information on all spills reported to the department.

North Dakota regulators, like in many other oil-producing states, are not obliged to tell the public about oil spills under state law. But in a state that's producing a million barrels a day and saw nearly 2,500 miles of new pipelines last year, many believe the risk of spills will increase, posing a bigger threat to farmland and water.


The two articles certainly provide sufficient information to suggest a close relationship between state regulators and pipeline companies, and a willingness to control the news about spills so as to not alarm the public--particularly when the safety of the proposed new mega-pipeline for coal sands derived oil is under debate. But the problem here is the liberal media?

Back flips, for sure.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5475

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But wait, there's more! Techno doesn't want to hold the North Carolina governor accountable for his attempted sweetheart deal on the Duke coal ash spill, and has blamed the problem on the North Carolina legislature when it was Democratic. I see acrobatics again.

It is actually the far right, supporting the ALEC agenda, that has fought regulation of coal ash.

Quote:
How ALEC helped Duke Energy block stricter coal ash rules

Duke Energy is not only the nation’s largest electric utility but one of its ALEC--Duke Energypolitical powerhouses. Besides the millions of dollars the North Carolina-based company spends on federal and state campaign contributions and lobbying, another tool it has used to get its way in the public policy arena is the American Legislative Exchange Council.

ALEC is an influential group that brings together major corporations and mostly Republican state lawmakers to promote a business-friendly agenda. It is classified as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit but has drawn charges of illegal lobbying and misusing charity laws, since almost all of its funding comes from corporate interests.

ALEC has been involved in efforts to block stricter regulation of coal ash, which is in the spotlight again following Duke Energy’s massive spill into the Dan River from a coal ash pit at one of its North Carolina plants. It has carried out this work with the financial backing of Duke, which belonged to ALEC during the height of the group’s work to block federal coal ash oversight.

Since then, Duke Energy has been the target of a campaign by environmental, civil rights and democracy activists that called on the company to quit ALEC. Last year the British newspaper The Guardian obtained documents that suggested Duke Energy may have let its ALEC membership lapse in April 2013 amid the uproar over the group’s involvement promoting Stand Your Ground laws like the one that came up in the trial of George Zimmerman after he shot and killed unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin. However, the company has refused to say definitely whether or not it is still a member.

Contacted about its ALEC membership status this week, Duke Energy spokesperson Chad Eaton said “we do not release each and every group Duke Energy is a member of or involved with since those memberships and sponsorships are evaluated on an annual basis and often frequently change.” He also noted that the company is “active in many groups that have a variety of viewpoints but that does not mean that we support all of the various positions those organizations take.”

Nevertheless, it’s an established fact that Duke Energy was a member of ALEC during the height of the group’s efforts to block strict federal regulation of coal ash and held a seat on ALEC’s Energy, Environment and Agriculture Task Force. In addition, Duke Energy’s position on coal ash is in line with ALEC’s, as the company itself has lobbied to block strict coal ash rules and submitted numerous comments to federal regulators opposing strict oversight.

Federal regulation of coal ash became a pressing concern following the 2008 collapse of a coal ash pit at the Tennessee Valley Authority’s Kingston plant in Harriman, Tenn. that contaminated the Emory and Clinch rivers. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency vowed to enact federal rules governing the disposal of coal ash, which contains potentially dangerous levels of toxic metals like arsenic and lead and other health-damaging chemicals. In May 2010, EPA proposed two options for regulating coal ash — one that would classify it as hazardous waste and impose strict federal regulations, including a requirement that coal ash pits like those that failed in Tennessee and North Carolina be closed, and another option that would treat coal ash as non-hazardous waste and leave enforcement of basic standards largely up to the states.

But the agency delayed issuing a final rule after coming under intense political pressure from the coal industry and power companies, who argued that strict federal regulation would cost too much and stigmatize efforts to recycle coal ash. Following lawsuits filed by environmental groups seeking the final rule’s release, EPA recently lodged a consent decree saying it would issue it by Dec. 19 of this year.

ALEC was one of the drivers of the political backlash that slowed EPA from taking action in the wake of the Kingston disaster. Among the actions ALEC took as part of its efforts to block strict federal oversight of coal ash:

* Passed a “Resolution to Retain State Authority Over Coal Ash as Non-Hazardous Waste.” ALEC’s board of directors approved this resolution, which “concludes that states are best positioned to serve as the principal regulatory authority for [coal ash] as non-hazardous waste.” (2010)

* Published “EPA’s Regulatory Train Wreck: Strategies for State Legislators.” This report took broad aim at the EPA for various efforts to curb energy-related pollution, including the proposal to treat coal ash as hazardous waste. It urges state lawmakers to “get the state on record as calling on Congress to stop this regulatory train wreck.” On coal ash specifically, it promoted the “Resolution to Retain State Authority Over Coal Ash as Non-Hazardous Waste” passed by its board the previous year. (February 2011)

* Distributed “Coal Ash Regulation Talking Points.” This checklist of claims includes concerns that treating coal ash as hazardous waste would end up “burdening” coal power plant owners and cost utilities too much. (December 2011)

* Called on members to write the EPA opposing federal regulation of coal ash. After environmental groups filed a Notice of Intent to Sue to force EPA to finalize its proposed rule for coal ash, ALEC urged its members to write a letter to then-EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson “about the impacts of the potential regulation of coal ash.” (February 2012)


Of course, ALEC is one of those cited in the appendix to the report on Exxon's efforts to mislead the public on climate change.

Environmentalists--and the courts--are disappointed in the Obama administration for not pursuing regulations on coal ash more rigorously http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/29/coal-ash-epa_n_4175599.html, but none of us will forget Cheney's secret meetings in the White House formulating energy policies that favored his former employers, and blocking regulation of various coal activities--waste disposal, bargain leases on public lands, lack of control of particulate emissions, and CO2 emissions without cost, that amount to subsidies to coal at the expense of public health.

And was it good for American consumers? No, but damned fine for energy profiteers. See: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2010/06/02/7981/bp-disaster-is-cheneys-katrina/
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I have no trouble listening to liberals, it's what they say that is perplexing.

Man, *I* do. The intelligent and honest ones who assume their listeners are intelligent and informed are fine, but the empty-headed sycophants who just spout Democrat Party talking points and often outright lies as though video recordings of the truth didn't exist (e.g., Reid, Jehmu Greene, Sibelius, Rice, Obama, Schumer, Maddox, Mathews, and so many more) just make the party and the movement look like fools.
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