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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3463

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One kind of politics, one kind of science.
Other kind of politics, other kind of science.
Americans showing their ignorance to the world.
When I discuss US politics with folks in other countries, they often find US conservative politics to be laughable, even if they are very conservative themselves. They don't actually know many conservatives from here. They get that impression from conservative media.
The GOP primary has been mentioned as a clown posse.
Quote" The GOPs best and brightest"
The 100 million dollars spent by so called fiscal conservatives on Clinton's blowjob, while defunding programs for hungry children didn't go over well with other conservatives.
Statements by Limbaugh get coverage overseas, to the contempt of their conservatives. They have referred to him as the leading spokesman of US conservatives.
They think the vast majority of Americans are liberal because that is who they see traveling. Conservative Americans tend to stay in culturally insulated Hilton hotel rooms, only venturing out in groups on bus tours or corporate types in blacked out company cars. The Americans sitting around and chatting with locals in cafes are overwhelmingly liberals or no politics.
Perhaps it is because, as the Republican leadership has stated,many GOP supporters are angry old white men from poor Southern states. That group may not travel much.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2708

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:

The GOP primary has been mentioned as a clown posse.
Quote" The GOPs best and brightest"

This

and

this

are so accurate...
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5372

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pueno--It doesn't belong in this thread, really, but yesterday's House vote to essentially ban abortion, is another incidence of the GOP digging their own grave, jumping in, and asking women if they really want to cover them with dirt. Woo Woo. Doing the public's work, hard at it passing bills that will go nowhere.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2727

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A House panel voted to ban abortions after 20 weeks. That is now described as a "House vote to essentially ban abortions". And he wonders why his veracity is questioned.
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MULLDE102f



Joined: 15 Jun 1997
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not questioned, except from the four right wing idealogues that post here.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5372

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 22 weeks, based on a theory about fetuses feeling pain. House committee not final vote. Both nitpicks that don't change the underlying problem that the GOP is working on legislation that will go nowhere, and offending women--as well as other groups--as they do so. That was the point. I guess you missed it.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5372

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not clear to me if those who live inside the bubble--but are qualified in their own minds to dictate the behavior of others--actually ever hear the facts. I've again been called by a liar from a man in the bubble. But there is a context, social, legal, and political, that makes the claims of those in the bubble wrong.

Beginning with legal, the flurry of efforts by anti-abortion activists to further restrict what they call "late term" abortions have been overturned by the courts. Efforts have passed in a number of states to restrict abortions to as little as 12 weeks after conception. When combined with efforts to establish waiting periods, cut funding for abortion, birth control, and the morning after pill, it makes it more and more difficult for pregnant women who want to avoid pregnancy, or choose to have an abortion early in their pregnancy, to actually do so.

The most recent of these efforts to founder on legal shoals was that of Arizona:

Quote:
Arizona Law on Abortions Struck Down as Restrictive

By FERNANDA SANTOS

Published: May 21, 2013

A federal appellate panel struck down Arizona’s abortion law on Tuesday, saying it was unconstitutional “under a long line of invariant Supreme Court precedents” that guarantee a woman’s right to end a pregnancy any time before a fetus is deemed viable outside her womb — generally at 24 weeks.

The law, enacted in April 2012 despite vociferous protest by women’s and civil rights groups, made abortions illegal if performed 20 weeks after a woman’s last menstrual period, or roughly 18 weeks after fertilization, even if the woman learned that the fetus had no chance of surviving after birth. At 18 weeks, many fetal abnormalities can be detected through sonograms.


At a social level, Americans have mixed feelings about abortion. They generally favor contraception, would like to discourage abortion, particularly for what they see as late term--which the courts have established at 24 weeks--but have some reluctance to invade the privacy of a woman who faces such a choice. That choice is made much more difficult in the cases of rape, poverty, women's health issues, and disintegrating marriages where women alone face the financial burden of raising a child when her husband abandons her. For some reason, the "church dads" of the world seem to have no qualms in dictating decisions for these women. In the case of the House legislation, where the Republicans rejected any exceptions for rape or incest, they continued their pattern of insensitive remarks. From Fox news:

Quote:
Franks generated another controversy during the committee debate when, in response to a Democratic amendment making an exception to the abortion ban in cases of rape and incest, he stated that incidences of rape resulting in pregnancy "are very low."


Politics remains the art of the possible, and art seems to be invisible to many of the new GOP legislators backed by the Tea Party. There is a broad consensus in America that education, contraception and early abortion are vastly preferable to abortion in the 20th week of pregnancy. The Supreme Court has overturned bans on contraception and abortion, so access to abortion has been established as legal.

The new generation of GOP legislators remain rather clueless about building the coalitions of the possible. Here's where living in the bubble diminishes actually accomplishing one's goals. The Bush administration favored chastity and abstinence to the near exclusion of sex education and contraception--and it didn't work. Rather than work across the aisle with Democrats who would be willing to find some middle ground to reduce unwanted pregnancies, the Republicans in the House again through down the gauntlet (with no GOP women on the committee), and advanced a bill that has absolutely no chance of becoming law.

There is a saying that I am fond of repeating that was hard to learn. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Of course, you can always misread what I post and call me a liar.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1493

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thinking about the coming immigration reform bill. I haven't seen (or researched) the numbers, but let's assume that of the 11 million illegals, half are here only to make enough money to send home so at some point they can return to their country and begin living a much higher standard of living. Clearly, there are many that fall into this category, the question is how many?

With amnesty, will the 5.5 million planning on going home someday, go with the amnesty program and register (or whatever the process is), or will they stay illegal and try to avoid paying payroll taxes to maximize their income? If they "register" will they be paid minimum wage or will they have lower limits set for them?

Identification for those going into the amnesty/citizenship program will have to be bullet proof and must be checked at every opportunity, otherwise millions will continue to fly below the radar.

The obvious solution to these issues is for employers to be hit hard for employing illegals (maybe a fine of 10-20K per year for each illegal for each year that can be documented). This must be one of the key factors to make this thing work.

Just wondering if there is any chance this bill will work.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1810
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Just thinking about the coming immigration reform bill. I haven't seen (or researched) the numbers, but let's assume that of the 11 million illegals, half are here only to make enough money to send home so at some point they can return to their country and begin living a much higher standard of living. Clearly, there are many that fall into this category, the question is how many?

With amnesty, will the 5.5 million planning on going home someday, go with the amnesty program and register (or whatever the process is), or will they stay illegal and try to avoid paying payroll taxes to maximize their income? If they "register" will they be paid minimum wage or will they have lower limits set for them?

Identification for those going into the amnesty/citizenship program will have to be bullet proof and must be checked at every opportunity, otherwise millions will continue to fly below the radar.

The obvious solution to these issues is for employers to be hit hard for employing illegals (maybe a fine of 10-20K per year for each illegal for each year that can be documented). This must be one of the key factors to make this thing work.

Just wondering if there is any chance this bill will work.

No bill will work if they don't get the borders under control first, overwise it will just be a huge waste of time and our money.
Both houses better remember what happened the last time this was attempted under Reagan, with the "promise" of getting the borders under control after they passed the bill, it didn't happen, so things just got worse.

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3463

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The laws are in place to bust employers. Adding more is unlikely to change things. Neither is more walls or cops .
Enforcement on employers is the single method that can work.
Thee folks are not coming here for the good weather.
Mexico is not the only example of countries that stop illegals by arresting employers.
It works.
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