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Gear selection help wanted
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Gear selection help wanted Reply with quote

I have a bunch of 10 year old gear and am starting to upgrade but would like some advice from someone other than a sales person getting rid of slow selling gear.
I live in the gorge area with intermediate skills and have no desire to sail at the hatchery - stevenson is more my thing. never much more than 3' chop/swell and I don't care for east wind days. I have no problem with light wind water starts but probably should have a seond high volume board just in case.. my naish titan 273 (160l) is just too much barge. I have a 103L F2 from 98 that seems ok but is so long it is impossible uphaul if necessary.

Can't seem to find anything that fits the Stevenson type that I can use with race/slalom type sails in the 4.5 to 6.5 range. Im not going to be doing loops, but a little chop hop when possible.

What board is made for those conditions?
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on how much money you want to spend. I sail Stevensons from time to time (used to sail it a lot). The sensor tends to read a tad high, so I don't even go there unless it's 20+ average on the meter. That being said. One board is not really going to work well from 4.5 to 6.5 unless you are really willing to compromise.

BUT if you want a SCREAMING deal on a new board (although 2007 model) check out Naish windsurfing (www.naishusa.com) for their close out deals. They have the 2007 Freeride Slalom for $474 NEW. They have it in 105 and 115. The 105 would work okay with the 6.5 and Okay with the 4.5. Better 5.0 to 6.0 range. Or a 2008 freeride slalom for $529 (better deal!) in the 105 size also.

Those would be two awesome deals. It looks like the 2008 model has the ability to have a single rear strap, and that would be worth the extra $55.

Check out the webpage and if you like it, stop on by Big Winds (in Hood River) and tell them you want to order it. You can buy it there and they will have it within 1 - 2 days.....

There are lots of other boards that would fit right in, but a new board for under $600??? Hard to beat.....


Last edited by johnl on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 624
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many people over think their gear. Use what you have. There is no special Stevenson board.

Don't go out if the good guys aren't planing. If there's not enough wind, they won't be able to rescue you when you can't uphaul. Idea


Do you weigh 200 lb. ?
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I am 170-175.
I don't want to be rescued and I can waterstart in lighter winds than most. I am fine with being the first out in questionable wind but use the 160L board to do it! I was told by some veterans that I need to be thinking of getting some new sails as they have changed a lot since my used 2000 Ezzy sails came out and should match whatever I get (was looking at maybe a 5.5 and 6.5 Cheetah) with the kind of board designed for the sail. Then sailing would be less struggle because everything is designed to work together...
Is that over thinking it?
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Starboard Kode's are pretty sweet. I just got a 103 ltr. one at the swap today, and sailed it with a 5.2, out of Hood River and it worked real well. Short..237cm, wide..65cm..smooth and fast. It even handled the psycho chop by the railroad bridge over the White Salmon River. Depending on your weight try out one of these in the size you need. You will like it. It will be no problem for me to uphaul this board. (152 lbs)

KMF
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually no. 10 year old sails and boards are pretty old. Something 5 years old or less would be better. Will the old stuff work? Sure but something newer would be nicer. For stevenson a modern board in the 100 -110 range would work in the lighter winds. Something in the 85 -90 liter range would work when it's windier. A newer shape WITHOUT a flat bottom would cut through the chop. In the larger shape I would lean towards a free ride (used to be called slalom). In sub 100 liters I would lean towards a freestyle wave. Either should be wider than a 10 yr old board (check the widths) so easier to uphaul.

Unfortunately board shapes and sail shapes have changed in 10 years. Matching a 10 year old sail with a modern board or a 10 year board with a modern sail really don't work that well together...
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 624
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't like to see people buying new gear and then getting their doors blown off by the guy that got their old stuff at the swap meet for $20.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's all good info, advice, and some good comments to consider.

I read your original question a couple times. You're sailing Stevenson pretty much exclusively, and don't see yourself getting into anything extreme. You're 175# and using 4.5's to 6.5's. You have a 160L that feels comfy in light/marginal stuff, but too big when it's capping good and filled-in. And you have a 103 L that you say is impossible to uphaul, because it's too long.
Being long doesn't make it impossible to uphaul. 103 L is 103 L. A wider 103 L board would be slightly easier to uphaul. But if your feet are in the right spot and using proper technique, a narrower board is fine to uphaul.

The real issue is that 103 L is too small (except for the VERY skilled) for a 175 lb-er to uphaul. It sounds to me like you want and need a board in the 115-120 L area. You would be able to uphaul that, whether it's from 1998 or 2008.

Save the 103 L board for when it's totally filled in and not going to die off. You'll go fast and totally have fun at Stevenson. Use the 115L board for when it's scattered caps to all-filled-in. In the gusts you'll be flying but feeling comfy, and in way more control than with your 160L board. But in the lulls when you can't water-start, you'll be able to uphaul it. And you'll also be able to slog back on it.
From your description of your ability and your goals. I think it makes a bit less difference, if you get new sails and new model boards. There are finer points there to debate... and there certainly can be advantages to newer gear. But, there's no debate and it totally makes sense, that you need something between your 160 L and your 103 L.
If you want to spend more $ after deciding on something around 115-120 L. I think you should get a rig bigger than a 6.5. At your weight, and with your big board... you would have a great time at Stevenson with something from 7.5 to 8.0M sail. THAT would make those light/mariginal days there, way more fun on that 160 L board.
Greg -
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14155

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocRobster wrote:
I was told by some veterans that I need to be thinking of getting some new sails as they have changed a lot since my used 2000 Ezzy sails came out and should match whatever I get (was looking at maybe a 5.5 and 6.5 Cheetah) with the kind of board designed for the sail. Then sailing would be less struggle because everything is designed to work together...
Is that over thinking it?

I suspect so. Your very modest goals imply you are not concerned about being competitive, either in performance or in having the newest toys, that you're out there for the same reason I am: to have fun. Will several thousand dollars buy you that much more fun?

I buy new sails every year for several reasons, including cost and evolving preferences. My favorite boards range in age from 2 to 12 years old, and I can tell no difference in sail-to-board compatibility. Why should I; the mast track to footstrap to board tail geometries are virtually the same on virtually all of them. Within reason, amateurs' speed in rough water is more about control and confidence than raw skill or inherent technical hull speed; my 10-yo wave boards with slotted wave fins blow right past most other sailors at my usual venue when I choose to drop the sail foot and the hammer, for several reasons:
Control. Wider, flatter, thicker-tailed, sharper-railed, bigger boards with long straight fins require exceptional skill to control WFO in heavy terrain. I don't have exceptional skill; do you?
Confidence. I spent decades racing full-bore dirt bikes at or near triple digit speeds in untracked virgin wild terrain all over Utah and New Mexico. This 20-30-mph recreational stuff on a soft surface is nap time by comparison until we start racing in earnest, and crashing on water beats slickrock, boulders, trees, cactus, and hardpan every time. Then there's the body, head, face, and forearm armor. If I trusted footstraps to release EVERY time without knee and ankle injury, I could outrun myself, and might even be fast enough to worry about using faster fins.
Limited competition. Most of the really fast guys sail further west of my favored haunts; nobody you ever heard of often sails where I usually do.
Concern. I gauge my fun by my own endorphins, not by the mathematical difference between my speed and the next guy's. He's a danged obstacle, not a benchmark, for me. That difference ranks down near 87th in my WSing priorities. If I want to swoop down a swell when someone's below me, I have two choices: drop the hammer and clear his nose, or cut hard and clear his tail. Both work just fine.

None of the above mandates new gear. Some, in fact, favor older gear, IMO and in magazine analyses and testing. My advice? Demo some newer and/or smaller gear and decide for yourself which gives you greater pleasure. Nothing else matters unless and until you begin letting others tell you what's "better".

Out of curiosity, I rigged up a soft, 2002, 4-battened 3.7 wave sail on a very gusty 3.2 day a couple of weeks ago. I felt power changes as the wind rose and fell, but the hard-edged gusts just went away, softened by my vinyl window and dacron leech. The next 6-8 hours felt like water skiing, not bull riding. I know several really expert locals who far prefer the forgiving nature of older sails, regardless of the vintage or logo of their boards. I'm already incorporating that experience into the design specs of my next sails ... options available, mostly at no extra cost, to anyone who buys their sails from the last, only WS sail production loft in the U.S.A.

Now, about that 160L board. I've never ridden Stevenson on light or moderate W winds, but surely 160L gets bouncy when the chop starts getting knee high ... unless you're just cruising. What about using the 160 to be first on the water, then dropping down 40-50 liters if it starts feeling harsh? No point beating your knees and gray matter up when the swap meets are CRAMMED with great smaller boards for a peanut or two ... 3 or 4 peanuts (out of 10) if you go wide. And yuo may be an ideal candidate for wider, since their primary disadvantage is at high speed in harsh terrain, two factors you seldom face.

Another tip: some years you're missing some great sailing even by your modest standards by avoiding east winds. We hear most about the cold "newcular" E winds of dry suit season, but some years produce very manageable (or even strong) E winds beginning in August or September. You'd be delighted by a nice 90-degree day of 25-mph easterlies on 72-degree water, with softly rolling, rounded, knee-high humps for hour upon hour upon hour and mile upon mile. Only in the farthest side's jibe zone do the humps give way to anything resembling chop; jibe sooner and even that's avoidable.

Yet another tip: if you do sail easterlies and a sudden wind puke catches you by surprise to the extent you cannot return to Bob's Beach, you don't need no steenkin' rescue. There are friendly landing spots downwind (Blackberry Beach in WA and the public beach at the Cascade Locks ferry landing) from which you can hitch a ride back to your dog.

Mike \m/
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the comments. I really like the pricing on the Naish stuff, but I think my best course of action is to play out the year and see where it goes. I think Greg is right abot the 115 is probably where I need to fill in. Also, I am just wanting to be more comfy on the water (am 46yrs old) am competitive but more against myself. My son is beginning to learn and the 160 can probably be his board for the summer until he learns to waterstart. I'll save the money and buy last years sails next spring and maybe find a 115 in good shape or snag that Naish deal on the 07 model (although I'd rather have a footstrap option in the middle).
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