myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Wind Shrink Two...
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Eastern and Central USA & Canada
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sillysails



Joined: 10 Jun 1997
Posts: 57
Location: South Seaside 24th Ocean & Bay

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Wind Shrink Two... Reply with quote

I have been sailing for decades. All older style wood sandwich construction, bump and jump, 8'6" with only Ezzy wave sails and, I never had any problems jibing etc.

Last year there was little wind in NJ until the fall. I bought a Fanatic 85L Freewave which is still the current model, about 7'9" and wider everywhere than my older boards. It took me awhile to get the knack of this new shorter board's sailing style. In the beginning on this short board I had to learn new techniques. LOL..all of them. It was my personal nightmare. At the end of the 2011 season and about 10 sessions I would say ,at best, that I found a comfort zone, which was far below what I could do with the older gear.

Now this year has been better. Wind wise I have been out 7 times. Three days out of four were great in NJ over the Memorial Weekend. Life is good. I found one big mistake this year was using the stock small fin with a 6.0 sails. Now with a change to a 32 cm weed fin the board/sail combo is making a BIG performance difference.

Tuesday, the wind and sun were perfect. The Trixie meter was pegged at a gust of 30 Knots and was consistent on the water at about that on average for a few hours. One of the best days I have seen in years. (4.2 Ezzy Wave maxed down and out haul, Perfect) Fins Fins and Fins. I only have a 32 cm weed fin, which was great for speed but the Jibes were not pretty, I fell in at the end for more than half of them. The only difference is this shorter and wider is better trend for all boards. I think it is better a design concept. Feels so new to just ride one, but am I alone on this frustrating learning curve?

Doc, what is up with this? Does the fin size matter THAT MUCH? I did order a 25 cm weed, but I never have any problems with the older gear.

Doc, is my problem the overall shortness of the board? I think this makes my foot work and weight distribution critical in the jibe.

Problems that kill a planing gybe.

It seems I have found all these error! Except for #1. I have managed several good jibes but not like the ones I used to do.

1. Not enough speed
2. Radius too tight, exit on a full reach
3. Not enough weight on the front foot
4. Not pushing down on the boom to keep the nose of the board down
5. Not bending the knees enough in the chop to keep the board from bouncing
6. Flipping the sail too late
7. Not sheeting in enough. In the early stages, the sail needs to come in line with the board (reduce drag as the board moves faster than the wind), then when you are about half way through the sail will go back out over the water a little as the wind and board match speeds.
8. Not pumping after the sail flip to stay on plane. Not essential unless you slow down too much.

Speed wise the new shape doesn't carry as much speed through the turn. The board seems to burn off speed very quickly. Seems the big fin was a big negative in the turn. Speed wise and controlling the radius. Then one of my mistakes is tendency to end up with too much weight on my rear foot especially on the going to Starboard tack. Any advice or similar thoughts on the newer shapes will help. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Wind Shrink Two... Reply with quote

bthiel wrote:
1. this shorter and wider is better trend for all boards. I think it is better a design concept.

Problems that kill a planing gybe.

It seems I have found all these error! Except for #1.

1. Not enough speed
2. Radius too tight, exit on a full reach
3. Not enough weight on the front foot
4. Not pushing down on the boom to keep the nose of the board down
5. Not bending the knees enough in the chop to keep the board from bouncing
6. Flipping the sail too late
7. Not sheeting in enough. In the early stages, the sail needs to come in line with the board (reduce drag as the board moves faster than the wind), then when you are about half way through the sail will go back out over the water a little as the wind and board match speeds.
8. Not pumping after the sail flip to stay on plane. Not essential unless you slow down too much.

1. The well-regarded Boardseeker magazine disagrees, and hundreds to thousands of WSers agree with that magazine's in-depth analysis of the differences, often discussed at great length here. They are different, but that does not equate to inherently better, for many reasons.

2. Regarding your numbered list, by the numbers:
1. Stubbies -- aka short/wides -- are not as fast, especially in rough water.
2. So jibe the sail earlier or carve less tightly. I LOVE very tight jibes, as long as I jibe the sail much sooner to allow them. If I don't flip the sail before my board is pointing downwind so I can exit sheeted in on the new broad reach with no perceptible loss of entry speed, I'm doomed.
3. So put more weight up there.
4. I never push down on my booms when carving a jibe, presuming I'm powered up. I try to jibe in one motion in about in the time it takes to say unhookstepcarveflipgrabgo aloud, so there's no time to bounce and thus no need to mash down on the boom.
5. If you're looking OVER your booms, you're right.
6. See #2.
7. When my board is halfway through the jibe, as in pointed downwind, I should be grabbing the new side of the boom and be sheeting in, because my objective is to accelerate into the new broad reach from that point.
8. If you did everything else right, including entering at full speed, you should be able at some point to remain at full speed from entry to exit. One thing that slows 90% of jibers down to a stall is using the sail to power them through the jibe. I prefer to use the sail to achieve top speed, switch it off 100% by totally oversheeting it then spinning the sail as fast as I can (I'm talking sails <7.5) while I carve the board through about 90 degrees, then hit the throttle again. Ideally for me, there's little overlap between the power/turn/power phases, and the middle/coasting phase lasts only a second or two. Much longer and my carve has taken me to the new beam reach, where everything goes to hell if my sail is still in mid-spin.

This worked for me for a decade, until my balance went to hell for a variety of medical reasons, which makes any unpowered sailing a big challenge.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sillysails



Joined: 10 Jun 1997
Posts: 57
Location: South Seaside 24th Ocean & Bay

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank isbars
This point is Very insightful

8. If you did everything else right, including entering at full speed, you should be able at some point to remain at full speed from entry to exit. One thing that slows 90% of jibers down to a stall is using the sail to power them through the jibe. I prefer to use the sail to achieve top speed, switch it off 100% by totally oversheeting it then spinning the sail as fast as I can (I'm talking sails <7.5) while I carve the board through about 90 degrees, then hit the throttle again. Ideally for me, there's little overlap between the power/turn/power phases, and the middle/coasting phase lasts only a second or two. Much longer and my carve has taken me to the new beam reach, where everything goes to hell if my sail is still in mid-spin.

Yes the ninety degree is funtalmemental. What i am saying is the compact profiile is Very diferente.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bt....you have plenty insight.....and your points to self are all ok.
Prob just need more time on water....caffeine and maybe some spectators

Have you ever had a coach in any sport tell you that you were bending your knees too much? Drive it front foot and go!

_________________
South African eAparthied:
http://www.desert-wolf.com/dw/products/unmanned-aerial-systems/skunk-riot-control-copter.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bthiel wrote:
What i am saying is the compact profiile is Very diferente.

Yes, it is, but "compact", aka stubby, boards can be built to jibe very tightly if that's the shaper's goal. Even then, however, their extra width for a given volume, all by itself, will interact more with the chop to produce a harsher ride and less steering precision than similar hull shape features with a narrower planform, especially in the tail. It's apparently very challenging to make a wider-tailed board track and turn in heavy chop like a narrower-tailed board. That's one reason many rough-water B&J sailors prefer slightly narrower/longer shapes.

Mike \m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure the board is a huge issue.....that 32 Weeder is a problem though. The monster isn't going to jibe too well....It willl plane up quick, but then you are stuck....

You will carve much better with a conventional wave fin....like a 9 1/2 True ames Enduro. Mid box

A cool compromise is the San Carlos Weedwave from Maui fins 25cm type i think for your deal....slightly foward in the box

Don't want to spend the money....make sure the weeder is foward

_________________
South African eAparthied:
http://www.desert-wolf.com/dw/products/unmanned-aerial-systems/skunk-riot-control-copter.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
raesmar



Joined: 17 Sep 1994
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: wider boards Reply with quote

fwiw about the Fanatic FW 85.

I went through a similar transition.
The key info I got was, a little change in footstrap, or mast base, makes a much bigger change on these shapes than in the past.
Maybe you need to move the mast base forward.

Second, there is more volume underfoot, use the width to add stability, place you foot far enough leeward and lean hard into the rail to get it down into the turn, the seperation in your feet will be more stable that the skinny sticks we used to ride.

hope this post comes out int hthe right topic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
B737



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is an awesome thread with great information.

can someone lay out the relationship between fin size and jibing, and further, weed vs straight in regards to jibing?

my sailing mentor mentions this to me and i havent quite made the connection yet of this relationship. I'm getting within reach of completing jibes, more miss than hit but finally making slow progress.

my go to fins are always straight fins (50,40,30,27 - depending on sail size) unless absolutely positively unsailable weeds require weeders then i use equivalent sizes in weed form.

boards are 95L Freewave, 113L Fanatic Eagle, and 145L Fanatic shark.

i need to hit an ABK! Smile

_________________
Lavallette & Seaside NJ
Fanatic Shark 145l 263cm
Fanatic Eagle 113l 247cm
Fanatic Freewave 95l 240cm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sillysails



Joined: 10 Jun 1997
Posts: 57
Location: South Seaside 24th Ocean & Bay

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks for the input. I know just from reading all of this that I need to bend at the knees more and concentrate on keeping my weight off the back foot and more spectators too is always a big incentive.

Seems the inside beach jibe is always better on a south wind and I often wonder why that is. I am a right hander. Going from starboard tack to the leeward tack is smoother than the opposite direction. Why is that?

My guess is that there is the visual reference of the shore line for better timing and reflex memory. LOL. I just made that up about the reflex but it makes sense to me.

That damn outside jibe is a free-for-all for me. I can never do as well going that way. (Although duck jibes are about the same either way).

Tighter is better on the stubby. One very noticeable difference is that on the narrow shapes, there seem to be a big gain in speed on the bare off before the jibe. On the stubby the speed seems to drop off. Craziness me thinks!

_________________
85 Fanatic Freewave
115 Fanatic Freewave
Fanatic Fly SUP
Tiger 5.8-6.3 Ezzy Wave 4.2-5.0( 6.3 FOR SALE)
See you on the water- Boyd


Last edited by Sillysails on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scargo



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like you're already matching fins to sails, and only using the weed fins when the conditions require, so just continue to use the right fins, and otherwise don't think about it. I find that the straight fins give a little more bite in the turns, but it's not that perceptible and both should work fine.

I guess you might be pointing a little higher with a straight fin, so you need to remember to bear off before initiating the carve -- but you should be doing that anyway. So I'd say cross this off the long list of things to worry about when learning to jibe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Eastern and Central USA & Canada All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group