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stevenbard
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 2731
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 Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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For the last 30 years, windsurfers have been classified as vessels, instead of a recreational activity, which allows the bureaucrats to waive their hands and do whatever they want to do...so we do have all the rights afforded to vessels, but not the rights of surfers. Technically, you aren't supposed to operate a vessel within 200 yards of shore. The lifeguards have turned their heads on this issue, except when they deem it to be a danger. (however miniscule)
For 30 years, the rule of law has been either ignored or abused depending on how you look at it Mac. Now kiting has changed the equation.
Any other ideas from our Northern Partners that are positive?
http://www.ikitesurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18732
From the kite forum... |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11482
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stevenbard wrote: | | Maybe it's time to ...hire an attorney to educate the authorities. |
Probably the last mouthpiece I would have thought of would be an attorney ... or a doctor ... or a plumber ... or any person based on his/her shingle. The scores of times times I've had to persuade a corporation, a federal court, a lawyer or whole teams of them, the BLM/Corps of Engineers/Dept of Fish & Game/BIA, a homeowner with beachfront property, a two-star general and many lesser commanding officers, a raving intruder raising hell in a military weapons laboratory, teams of oncologists or neurologists, a roomful of 40 antagonistic defense contractors* from 20 organizations, etc. to make or change its mind in my favor, I've found that facts, logic, conviction, resolve, and enthusiasm achieve FAR greater, more frequent, and more lasting success and cooperation than reliance on shingles, titles, horsepower, and/or rank.
Surely you can find a windsurfer (Dana Miller comes to mind) with what you really need: articulate and persuasive ability, practical knowledge of both sports, and some videos comparing the footprints and hazards of bozos on kites to bozos on windsurfers. WSers fall down -- only accidentally -- on anybody withing 15 feet, while kiters get launched -- often deliberately -- and/or teabagged accidentally into anything and anybody within scores of meters downwind. Anybody who can't see the difference in those threats must be a government employee with no interest in making a rational decision. Who's more likely to INTEREST them ... some stuffed shirt trying to force them to change their minds, using tactics and Latin to run roughshod over their little fiefdom, or some personable, contrite, knowledgeable, non-threatening guy or gal with some side-splitting videos and first-hand knowledge from the trenches trying to persuade them from a peer or subservient position?
* The General Dynamics spokesman asked me in the open meetings during Q&A after my formal briefing, "Don't you have the horsepower to just order us to do it your way?" "Yes, but I want your willing cooperation, not your enmity". The program was a roaring success, after a dictator many levels above me had failed so miserably as my immediate predecessor in an identical program that the Congress got heavily involved.
IMO, you want to lead, not push, these bureaucrats to your side. If that fails AND some written law is on your side, then go hire an enforcer ... but realize that if the bureaucrats really want you out of there, they will find a way.
Mike \m/ |
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westadamsvets
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Somewhat off topic, but regarding holiday weekends:
Just got back from cabrillo - couldn't get in despite the jacked up $9 entry fee. Too bad the watchthewater.com cam was down - would have seen the crazy crowds and avoided the pointless drive.
For future reference, anybody know what time was the parking closed?
It was very uncrowded yesterday (Sunday) so I assumed that today would be a good chance. No go. After 4pm crowds of people were walking into the beach, despite the closure of the car entrance.
It was a rougher, more drunken crowd, than normal too. Good chance of somebody stepping on a sail, or worse, impaling themselves on a fin.
Oh well... At least we don't have powerboats like at isabella.... |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Suit yourself Bard. When this first came up I checked with the Commission staff, it had not gotten a permit and they said it needed one. But you're a sweetheart, figure it out on your own. |
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stevenbard
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 2731
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Mac, the politics of SF Bay where you sail and So. Cal coast are different. However, it would be nice if we could get everyone, North, South, and East in on this problem to solve it in a positive way.
We have had numerous meetings with the guards, and as the original poster indicated, they are lumping the 2 sports together, and according to them, we are vessels. This is California state law, and has been litigated. And if I remember correctly, you guys in the bay area fought this issue many years back. In order to preserve your right to sail in the bay, windsurfing was legislated to be vessels. Unfortunately, that harmed the beach sailors in populated areas. You guys up there did a good job. Problem is, it was too good. In the beginning we were just beach toys, so weren't allowed to sail in the bay around other vessels.
I hope this clarifies things. Any other ideas? |
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cbknap
Joined: 03 Jun 1997
Posts: 262
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
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[quote="westadamsvets"]SJust got back from cabrillo - couldn't get in despite the jacked up $9 entry fee. Too bad the watchthewater.com cam was down ...For future reference, anybody know what time was the parking closed? quote]
Peter: Back gate closed around 1 p.m.....reopened about 4:15 or 4:30. Front gate may have closed earlier....and fer sure reopened later.
Total zoo there today...and not particularly windy....I miss winter already.
--cbk |
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westadamsvets
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote="cbknap"] | westadamsvets wrote: | SJust got back from cabrillo - couldn't get in despite the jacked up $9 entry fee. Too bad the watchthewater.com cam was down ...For future reference, anybody know what time was the parking closed? quote]
Peter: Back gate closed around 1 p.m.....reopened about 4:15 or 4:30. Front gate may have closed earlier....and fer sure reopened later.
Total zoo there today...and not particularly windy....I miss winter already.
--cbk |
That's a good tip as far as trying to get in thru the back gate. I was at the front entrance after 4pm - didn't think about driving around. It was probably for the best though since the place was super crowded and didn't really have a good vibe. |
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tclproductions
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Windsurfing ban at Seal beach |
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| NOVAAN wrote: | Windsurfing and kiteing is now ban on all holidays for the summer at Seal beach.
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That's what happens when you complain constantly. Instead of pursuing a war between kitesurfers and windsurfers, it would be smarter if we all got along and keep our beaches open for wind sports.
Before you bitch and moan about some kitesurfer being down, remember it may cause the beach get shut down for you too.
Lets work together and not against each other. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11482
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Windsurfing ban at Seal beach |
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| tclproductions wrote: | That's what happens when you complain constantly. Instead of pursuing a war between kitesurfers and windsurfers, it would be smarter if we all got along and keep our beaches open for wind sports.
Lets work together and not against each other. |
Pointing out real and very significant differences between the two sports is neither complaining nor warfare, IMO. In crowds, kites pose far greater risks than and ten times the footprint of WSers (neither, of course, should go blasting through or jumping over swimmers). When beaches are getting closed expressly due to that distinction, it's time to highlight it. Should football games or motocross be allowed on SRO beaches just because a kid is allowed to use his Game Box or build a sand castle? |
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benspikey
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Made it in the gate before 1 pm and was able to sail at Cabrillo yesterday (Monday). Must say the lifeguards were very nice and cleared a section of the beach for us to launch. Was joined by a few others as the afternoon went on but gate access hindered most of the w/surfing crowd. Great session and got to play with the dolphins..
Not to redirect this thread but the real crime is people littering on the beach. Really I am glad they charge 9 dollars to keep the people out.
Our local government can close down a beach to tax paying / revenue generating individuals.. but cannot get one officer to issue littering tickets at a state park to the masses on a major holiday..
Sorry off topic but disgusted with the lack of respect displayed by people towards nature.
Why would you come to nature and leave your trash unless you are trash.. Where are these people's mothers?? This is why thugs beat up innocent people leaving a dodgers game.. no respect for nature or themselves.. This is why I hate LA.. This is whats wrong with the system.
If you are a citizen you are taxed/fined/punished..
If you are not a citizen you have free health care, no taxes, most likely will not be ticket or arrested unless you commit a major crime..
not racist just dislike behavior displayed by this social group..
Wouldn't have any issue if they simply picked up their trash... ( and told their children NO) |
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