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Sail Making Materials and Dimension Polyant
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JamesHardy



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sailaero wrote:
Hi Thombiz

These are your words pasted from your earlier post.

If that stuff really is a Dimension Polyant product, provide the product number right here in public and I'll order some to prove it came from DP and publicly retract my support of Dimension Polyant and issue a public apology

You talked to Hale who told you they made the product. You were wrong. Either your a man of your word or your not. I guess everyone knows the answer now.


Fight,Fight,Fight!! Sailaero and Thombiz are going to duke-it-out in the parking lot after school!! I love Fridays Twisted Evil
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2438

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no matter the look, function is far more important, IMHO. technora is the patching material of choice sans the window. light, bullet proof, tough, UV resistant. acts as very good luff panel material too.

in higher sections above the boom, and away from the luff panel, pentex is very light and UV resistant. some friends of mine have 2002 and older sails with pentex in the upper sections, still going strong. may not be a cosmetic match for a patch, but sure does the job as light and functional sail material that lasts for a very long time.

form should follow function, right? getting the color match would be secondary? aerotech used to be one of the few that offered x-ply in sails, now nearly everyone does? a push for quality is being done in lots of places.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://powerexmasts.com/?page_id=72


Last edited by jingebritsen on Sat May 12, 2012 5:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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tingram



Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thombiz, you are Bob Thompson, the "sail repair guy" in Corpus Christi, Texas, right? Could I humbly suggest that you slow down a bit before posting stuff like this? Think of the windsurfing community as a very small town.

Sincerely,

Tom Ingram
Jacksonville, Florida
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thombiz



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 565
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I am that Bob Thompson. Your recommendation is received and has been considered. Perhaps you have some ideas about why I'm fighting for more quality? And, perhaps you perceive that to be wrong.

If someone wants to boycott my services because of my stand for higher quality or for any other reason.... please, exercise your options to take your business elsewhere. If you are one of my customers and you know how I've helped you in the past, that hasn't changed one bit. This exercise is about bringing quality and reliability to you and rewarding those who gladly share my passion in their products.
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thombiz



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 565
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've certainly seen two very different approaches to manufacturers handling warranty or quality problems. I know where my first stop will be when I go shopping.

On a slightly different note, the little Chihuahua dog jumping in here and there trying to land an undeserved bite to my heels then prancing around like a pit bull was one of the most amusing, but in a unique way kind of sad displays, I've ever seen.
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rlemmens



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sailaero wrote:
We have been in the sail business since 1986 and have produced well over 20,000 sails. Some were not perfect and I would agree with you that the 2003 white material was not right. We have consistently been in the top 3 selling sails in the USA over the last 20 years and the only way to do that is with repeat customers.

A few clarification points
a) 26 years and 20,000 sails so 20,000/26<1000 sails per year I'm assuming about $250 per sail profit, maybe less unless you only sell direct. $250,000 annually doesn't seem like a huge amount for a company. So how are you still in business, unless you don't mind losing money?
b)Top 3 selling sail in the U.S.? You must be counting school rigs. Which by the way, is great since I instructed for a long time. I think making sails for youth and beginners is one of the best things you can do since it gets more people into the sport. But there is no way you can convince me that you sell more sails than Ezzy, Goya, Neilpryde, Simmer, Gaastra, Hot Sails, North(well maybe north since they're more euro, like Gaastra) Maui Sails and Naish. No offense, and I could be wrong, but don't represent a company and lie.
c) So the material that you admit wasn't right. I think windsurfing is one of the few markets where you can buy an imperfect product, and the manufacturers know it, where you really have no power to get the product reimbursed. This seriously makes me annoyed. I feel like there's lots of companies that still do this, people spend more money on a board than a mountain bike. If the mountain bike had some problems the company would exchange it. Windsurfing companies don't. That needs to change.
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sailaero



Joined: 24 Jul 2001
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Thombiz
Thanks for setting the record straight. We have a pretty good selection of sail repair material in our Daytona loft. If you are ever in need of material to match a sail just give me a call I would be glad to help.
Best Regards
Steve Gottlieb
Aerotech Sails

thombiz wrote:
Another point. Hale did offer to contact the Germain plant and see if they had a similar material and if they did, have them ship it to Putnam and then to me. Seemed like way too much effort and expense. Note: without considerable effort, we could not confirm it came from the Germain DP plant. So let me go on record. If your sail has the forementioned material, clear with grey or black strings and a white backing, Do Not bring it to me to repair. I DO NOT have any matching material to use in the repair. As far as I know, the only source for that material is the manufacturer. You are best served by sending the sail back to the manufacturer for exact replacement of said materials in order to return it to it's original condition.

As for any of the other mentioned brands, Ezzy, Simmer, Goya, Sailworks, World Sails, etc. Bring a sail to me for repairs which only used the Putnam, Conn. plant materials and I'll take $5 off the repair, and provide the very best repair available.

My public apology: As mentioned by Steve Gottlieb, the C567 material used in Aerotech sails at least 6 years old was produced in the Putnam, Conn. plant of Dimension Polyant prior to the arrival of Hale Walcot. This plant produces materials to meet a manufacturer's very exact specified demands. According to Hale, this product has not been produced for at least 6 years, therefore, I apologize to Aerotech and specifically to Steve Gottlieb for suggesting or even insinuating this product is still being used in Aerotech sails. This product does not come from DP in Putnam, therefore, it is not a Putnam product being used and is not the C567 formerly used and confirmed as formerly use by Steve. I admit publicly that I have no idea where the materials currently being used in Aerotech sails come from, therefore I am not a confirmed reliable source of info on their sails.
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sailaero



Joined: 24 Jul 2001
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Riemmmens

A) Thanks for your interest in our sail business. I did say well over 20,000 and I know the number is a lot larger but without digging up a bunch of old records I would rather under estimate. This is only our North American numbers and we do sell around the world as well. I wish we were making $250 dollars a sail at wholesale l. On average that number is a lot less. To make it all work we also distribute other products for the North American market such as Exocet, Powerex, Hydrotech, Kona, Epic Gear and few others. We also have a retail store. When you put all that together it is still a small business but is great to do something you love.
B) There are no real accurate numbers on how many sails are sold in the USA market. Industry people do talk and it does seem Ezzy is currently the market leader . With 3 or 4 other brands including ourselves fighting for the other spots. I do count school sails in our numbers and I am happy to say that is a large part of what we do. I only wish that part was bigger as this will determine our future. Thanks for teaching people this sport is so much fun and is great to share it with more.
C) The material from 2003 was not right and as soon as we knew it we took it off the market. We fixed and replaced sails that were within our one
year warranty period and some beyond that. I still se some of those sails around so many held up fine. Keep in mind back in 2003 colored Xply was just getting popular so some mistakes were made. Sails are a complicated thing and problems will always happen. To endure in the market place you have to take care of your customer and we do the best we can to be fair.

rlemmens wrote:
sailaero wrote:
We have been in the sail business since 1986 and have produced well over 20,000 sails. Some were not perfect and I would agree with you that the 2003 white material was not right. We have consistently been in the top 3 selling sails in the USA over the last 20 years and the only way to do that is with repeat customers.

A few clarification points
a) 26 years and 20,000 sails so 20,000/26<1000 sails per year I'm assuming about $250 per sail profit, maybe less unless you only sell direct. $250,000 annually doesn't seem like a huge amount for a company. So how are you still in business, unless you don't mind losing money?
b)Top 3 selling sail in the U.S.? You must be counting school rigs. Which by the way, is great since I instructed for a long time. I think making sails for youth and beginners is one of the best things you can do since it gets more people into the sport. But there is no way you can convince me that you sell more sails than Ezzy, Goya, Neilpryde, Simmer, Gaastra, Hot Sails, North(well maybe north since they're more euro, like Gaastra) Maui Sails and Naish. No offense, and I could be wrong, but don't represent a company and lie.
c) So the material that you admit wasn't right. I think windsurfing is one of the few markets where you can buy an imperfect product, and the manufacturers know it, where you really have no power to get the product reimbursed. This seriously makes me annoyed. I feel like there's lots of companies that still do this, people spend more money on a board than a mountain bike. If the mountain bike had some problems the company would exchange it. Windsurfing companies don't. That needs to change.
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thombiz



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 565
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is good to see that Aerotech continues to make improvements to their products to bring value to their customers. I look forward to seeing ever better products from Aerotech on the water. Bob Thompson, the sail repair guy, Corpus Christi
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rlemmens



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just wondering, thanks for all the answers. I didn't realize you guys were distributors as well. That's pretty neat. I think it's great you guys are making a business you love work. Sorry, faulty expensive products just irritate me.
Just a suggestion, when I started learning windsurfing at the camp I later instructed, I always thought the instructors had to be on good gear. They were also on aerotech sails. So when I got into the sport, I looked for aerotech sails to buy, but the local shop didn't have any. So I bought what they had. Wouldn't it be smart, from a business perspective, to have local shops carry your gear, especially if the camps using your gear are in the vicinity?
Anyways, hope all is well. Keep making products that will let people have fun. It's the best sport in the world. Hope to see more of your sails on the water.
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