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Barney being Frank
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:

You may see the ACA as a "rat's nest". I see it as a method that medical costs can be somewhat market driven while still providing health care for all. Our health care system is 16% of our GDP. A full-on change to single payer would cause havoc.

Too confusing for my simple canine brain. I DO have a good sense of smell though.

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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
coboardhead wrote:

You may see the ACA as a "rat's nest". I see it as a method that medical costs can be somewhat market driven while still providing health care for all. Our health care system is 16% of our GDP. A full-on change to single payer would cause havoc.

Too confusing for my simple canine brain. I DO have a good sense of smell though.


Please elaborate...I am not sure I follow.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess what I was saying is that I don't presume to understand the complex issue that is health care. I only know it stinks. But we already know that. It was just a comment from the Peanut Gallery. I'll shut up now.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4229

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until Obama took office, it was the best health care system in the world. However it is getting more expensive as we age, and there are people who just won't take care of themselves. Big brother must do the job.

For working folks who have insurance, it is the best. Why don't they just provide a minimum plan for the bums, and leave the rest of us alone.

I don't defend insurance companies here. However, why should a doctor study so many years and sacrifice, just to have the govt tell him what he can charge? I am in awe of doctors.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5891

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, maybe it hasn't dawned on you yet, but with passage of the ACA, folks will be able to shop for the best plan that serves their needs. So, if you want a minimalist plan, you will be able to get it at a competitive rate. Many younger folks will benefit with that plan model, yet still have catastrophic coverage should the unexpected happen.

Rather than imagine a boatload of negativity, you should look a bit closer at the positives associated with the ACA. Also, you have to remember that the original concept for the ACA was conceived at the Heritage Foundation.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Bard....

stevenbard wrote:
Until Obama took office, it was the best health care system in the world.


No. In many common cases, the outcomes are better in other countries. Links have been posted, examples written up here, but you didn't bother reading any of it. The issue is also not the health care system but the health insurance system.

stevenbard wrote:

However it is getting more expensive as we age, and there are people who just won't take care of themselves. Big brother must do the job.


Big brother is broke. Therefore, the plan is that you MUST take care of yourself now and buy insurance instead of getting treatment for free and letting the taxpayer hold the bag. Universal individual responsibility - a thoroughly conservative idea, until it was Obama's.

Quote:

For working folks who have insurance, it is the best. Why don't they just provide a minimum plan for the bums, and leave the rest of us alone.


Isn't that the plan? How does ACA change anything for you?

Quote:

I don't defend insurance companies here. However, why should a doctor study so many years and sacrifice, just to have the govt tell him what he can charge? I am in awe of doctors.


So, you think it's okay for the insurance company to tell the doctor (whom you admire) how much he can charge, but the Government (Medicare) can't try to get a better deal out of your tax dollars?

Please turn off the radio - seriously.

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Last edited by feuser on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Until Obama took office, it was the best health care system in the world. However it is getting more expensive as we age, and there are people who just won't take care of themselves. Big brother must do the job.

For working folks who have insurance, it is the best. Why don't they just provide a minimum plan for the bums, and leave the rest of us alone.

I don't defend insurance companies here. However, why should a doctor study so many years and sacrifice, just to have the govt tell him what he can charge? I am in awe of doctors.


Some of what you say is true...health care is getting more expensive. Lots of reasons...New technologies available to treat those at the fringes of life such as premature infants, seniors and high stage cancers. Good things we might agree...but expensive. And, we have fallen behind on preventative care. For decades (Obama is trying to change this) we have awarded providers for treating sickness rather than wellness at great expense.

Medicare has been telling Doc's what they can charge for as long as my wife has been in practice. 30 years. Nothing new here...just the idea that now they want to see some results for that expenditure. Not a bad idea in any industry receiving govt. funds.

Bard...you should be supporter of the ACA. Really, read the provisions. Don't rely on Obama haters to develop an opinion of it's merits.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Don't rely on Obama haters to develop an opinion of it's merits.


I almost never correct others' grammar or spelling, but., FYI, this one grates; it's "its".

And we don't need no steenkin' Obama haters; the CBO and the constitution do a pretty good job of shooting it down.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4229

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that they should have had a bi-partisan plan. Many dems are sorry they voted for this monstrosity. I assume the court will knock it down. If not, WELCOME TO CANADA OR CUBA.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5891

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know Bard, the Republicans really didn't have a plan, and they still don't. Look at all the years where they controlled Congress during both the Clinton and Bush Administration, they offered nothing while they had the power to do so.

When you look how the idea of healthcare reform evolved during the Obama Administration, it went from a single payer concept to a arguably conservative plan that was predicated on the private market based insurance model. I believe that this evolution occurred because there was a strong desire on the part of the Obama Administration and the Democrats to find bi-partisan support from the Republicans. Yet predictably, the Republicans didn't want any part of it. The only vague ideas that they could muster was tort reform and interstate insurance markets. While they whined about being shut out of the process, I believe that they had no real intent at all to pass significant healthcare reform. Their goals were to simply wind off time and try to kill any progress. In the end, the Democrats had no real choice other than to steamroll the final version of the ACA through.

Since the passage of the ACA, what attempts have the Republicans made to improve it? We all know that the ACA is far from optimum, and that things can be done to change it for the better. Yet, after control of the House for a year and half, nothing has been done. Their sole goal is to kill the ACA with nothing to replace it. What kind of vision and leadership is that?
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