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Hood River City Commision meeting Monday. Be heard!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14484

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scooter_bell wrote:
The cable park does not benefit the entire public, only the owners and a very small demographic of the public compared to the many different demographics that currently use the basin for a multitude of activities.

those docks and marinas are for the entire public to utilize their public river. Yes they can charge for slips but all marinas are safe harbor and open to the public on publicly held rivers.


Those paragraphs are contradictory. Based on the ratio of marina slips to local population I have always seen around the country, I'd estimate that marinas/slips are more exclusionary than a cable park might be. That goes tenfold for tourists, very few of whom tow their boats around the country with them. It's infinitely easier to bring money than to bring a boat, and in a good year boating in the Corridor sorta sucks 3 summer days out of 4.

I have no idea: is the existing HR marina maxed out? And how many recreational boats do we see on the Columbia? Even here in the TriCities, with a much longer boating season and MUCH flatter water than HR's, boat traffic on the river is very light even at midsummer ... more evidence of the numerical exclusivity of a marina or a dock.

Not to mention the price of a wake boat.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I stand corrected (twice), a buck this year, that's why I said
"unless something has changed this year". 4 for the price of 3 was my little
joke at .75 in years previous, because usually, I'm carrying
dollars, so, 3 dollars last year got me 4 trips. I can't comment on the
promises made, but it's handy to have a bridge (even one that costs
a buck) right there. So i'll pay. guess that makes me a pacifist ;*)
and yeh, I'd heard that (maybe on this forum from you) about Roosevelt.
I think getting it in writing is the smart thing to do, but I'd need Dan Weiss
to tell me whether or not you can have an unwritten binding contract if you
have witnesses (or at least a bigger laywer) ;*)

But this thread is about the cable park, which should be a lot better looking
(from the bridge), than what's currently there. I think getting some
attractive pubilc access (in writing), and mandates to keep the place up (or remove it if it fails) in writing, is only logical.

-Craig

p.s. I'll pay the HR bridge fee with a smile, even at a buck, when it hits
5 bucks, I might start getting a little more organized about what I bring
over it, or, I can always launch from the Hook and work my way up ;*)

isobars wrote:
cgoudie1 wrote:
Unless something changed this year, the bridge fair is .75. I look at it as buy 3 get 1 free.


Then you're in for a surprise. Did you actually think I just "made up" the dollar?

How does paying an ever-increasing toll decades past the date this camel was sold to the public as "free" equate to "4 for the price of 3"? It doesn't affect me, as I cross the bridge only a few times a year, but it costs many locals a month's rent or mortgage payment each year unless they get some serious discounts. It's just another example of the need to examine and get in irrevocable writing any and every promise any private or government developer.

A family up the nearby Snake River had owned and farmed a stretch of the waterfront for generations. The Corps decided they wanted it, and stopped just short of eminent domain proceedings by promising the family the land would become a park their descendants could enjoy for generations to come. Family caved, deal closed, park opened, park now closed, family screwed.

Even as a private citizen just workin' or windsurfin', I've personally seen and often dealt with developers in many states on many projects. I have been forced to assume every one of them is full of crap; the ones that fail 37 times become politicians.

Get every little promise in writing.

It took the previous owners of the lower 48 states centuries to figure this out, but they're there now. Didja know, for example, that if the Corps ever decides to close or abandon or sell or give away Roosevelt Park like the state did a mere decade ago, it automatically, by federal law, in irrevocable writing, reverts to the Yakama Nation, to be forever closed to non-native Americans?

Get it in writing, and be prepared to enforce it in court some day.
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scooter_bell



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, one last try to explain that marinas and docks are the exception for building in public waters. Swimming areas can also be established if they are reasonable in size. You can't build one all the way across the river though. Marinas serve the entire public while docks can be exclusive if built on private land or can be fee use only if they are maintained by a park service or the port for example. These things are exempt from certain criteria by state and federal government if I understan
d what I have read.

A cable park that takes up more than 75% of an off river bay does not fall into the same category as docks and marinas or swim areas. I won't get into the legal details here but the fact that there are no cable parks in US public rivers tells me I am not too far off.

I think that is the main difference between docks, marinas and swim areas on rivers. It gets super complicated but the US has a very long history of protecting public rivers and my understanding is that a cable just doesn't fit the critirea for public use. More than likely the Oregon courts will have to rule on this some day just as many other states area right now.

Phew, anyhow. public discourse is all part of this complicated process so speak out for or against and be heard!!
Very Happy
Derek
Friends of the Hood River Waterfront
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phazle5499



Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Docks and marinas provide a safe harbor for recreational boaters who enjoy leaving the dock or marina to share public waterways with other recreational boaters. I doubt very much that a permanent dock or marina would receive approval to be built if the stated intention was to restrict the use of the dock or marina for a special interest group that had no intention of ever leaving the dock or marina to share the public waterways .
A cable park, like the one proposed for the boat basin, is quite a different thing. It blocks off all other recreational boaters from the public waterway for the exclusive use of a special interest group. The cable park, unlike a dock or marina, provides a launch to nowhere. When the carnival ride operator flips the switch to the off position, everbody sinks !
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CUSalin



Joined: 11 Mar 2001
Posts: 308
Location: Portland / Hood River, OR

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel I need to respond to all those stating that The Boat Basin is "an eyesore," and is "ugly."

I frequent The Boat Basin. I often walk along it's east-side in the early mornings, and launch SUP from the gravel ramp on it's north end. I often observe a diversity of waterfowl - a variety of ducks and geese, Osprey, Bald Eagle, Herons, and an occasional Crane or Egret. I've observed a variety of songbirds in the Cattails along it's shores. I've seen Beaver and Muskrats (Nutria?) and other small mammals around it's shoreline. I've seen sizable schools of small fish which I've been told are Salmon Fry darting about in it's shallows. I would guess there is a resident population of Small Mouth Bass in there. I've caught crayfish with my children in The Boat Basin.

I kind of like the "wildness" of The Boat Basin.

Personally, I think some improved landscaping around it's perimeter including an extended pedestrian walkway, would be welcome by most and might encourage more people to gently enjoy the creatures and there little mini-environment there in a low impact way.

I think some modest and well thought out, low impact development, even in the form of hotel / restaurant / retail / or office space that respected the natural setting could be made quite nicely compatible with the urbanized wildlife and their mini-environment.

If done this way, I think that a greater number of human residence and visitors would welcome and use the space for strolling, dining, and generally enjoying the outdoors and beauty of The Gorge than a far fewer number of people who might quickly tire of paying to get pulled around in a circle by a cable in the water for only a few months of the year would.

I think that no matter how you build it - the proposed cable-toy structures and docks would minimize, maybe even destroy what I like about The Boat Basin.

I understand that many don't, or have yet to appreciate what I like about The Boat Basin. But then again... maybe they just don't walk around it or paddle in it very often.

Go down there. Walk around. Enjoy the view to the North. Do it again..., and you might see what I mean.

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phazle5499



Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, CUSalin. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2467

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and what cable park does not want to add ramps and slides? remember a thread about ramps and slides left over from last year's kiting op's? some folks thought that was an eyesore or potential shipping hazard. one good flood, and all that extra shrapnel is afloat out in another part of the waterway....
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Last edited by jingebritsen on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TBird



Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scooter_bell wrote:

A cable park that takes up more than 75% of an off river bay does not fall into the same category as docks and marinas or swim areas. I won't get into the legal details here but the fact that there are no cable parks in US public rivers tells me I am not too far off.


Thanks, everyone, for keeping this on point. See, we CAN have a reasonable discussion on the iwindsurf forum!
I'm admittedly a bit on the fence on this issue. I'm all for public access to natural resources. I guess I feel differently about this because I don't think of the boat basin as the river. It's manmade fill, is it not? Yes, I see ducks in there occasionally, but I've also seen a bald eagle picking around a garbage can Smile
The port area is there to be developed, like it or not. And I'd rather see it spruced up with recreational amenities than reserving it for light industry or leaving it sit as an abandoned, littered site. Sure, I'd much prefer that we upgrade the area with a path and park! But my understanding is that no one is going to step up with the money to do that. (Let's not even talk about the port and all their bridge money. Sigh.) And if the cable park goes in, I absolutely agree there should be a protocol for removing it if it were to stop operating. BTW, I feel the same about the kiteboarding ramps at the spit. Can't whoever dragged them down there in the summer take them away in the fall?
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bensound



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]
Quote:
And I'd rather see it spruced up with recreational amenities than reserving it for light industry or leaving it sit as an abandoned, littered site. Sure, I'd much prefer that we upgrade the area with a path and park! But my understanding is that no one is going to step up with the money to do that


Tbird -The Port of Hood River is starting the planning process for Lot 1 (the big dusty lot south of the Event Site) and boat basin. I went to their planning session on Tuesday and a consulting group presented BEAUTIFUL options for developing the west side of the boat basin. Some of the plans included the cable park, some did not. But all included walking paths, community gathering places, and lovely landscaping. The Port Commissioners have suddenly realized that they have an incredibly valuable asset --"Waterfront Property". The consultants suggest building out the waterfront first as a catalyst for attracting businesses to locate on Lot 1 (much the way that the Waterfront Park sparked the 4 buildings currently under construction on the west end of Port property). So whether the cable park is built or not, the basin will be developed. Its all a big puzzle and we need to make sure we get the pieces right. The question for the community is whether a ten acre cable park is the best piece to accomplish our objectives or would a diversity of smaller water dependent businesses on the west side of the basin (say concessions for kayaking, beginning windsurfing, SUP) be better. Its a hard question. And lots of detailed thinking needs to go into deciding.

But, the argument that I've seen here "Any thing is better than what we have now" or "if this doesn't happen, nothing will" is a false one. Whether a cable park is built or not, the boat basin will be improved and developed.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14484

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBird wrote:
Thanks, everyone, for keeping this on point. ... The port area is there to be developed ... Let's not even talk about the port and all their bridge money.


I suspect you're almost alone in trying to rule that port development, bridge funds, boat basin improvement, and the economy are all unrelated. A project this size and scope needs examination under a wide lens.
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