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The real racist
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tilting away again, are we, Mike? You peaked beyond you magic front end plonking machine to allege I and others convicted Mr. Zimmerman when, unsurprisingly, we were only discussing the interplay between the circumstances as we know them and the bizarre interplay between the no-retreat state and conventional self defense jurisprudence.

I think I feel as Alice felt when she fell down the hole.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--there is a real difference between a threat and a fatal shooting. But even if there is a credible threat, we cannot under the Constitution, arrest someone whom we believe to be a threat before they have committed a crime. The lead on any such case is always the local authorities. The Federal government only gets involved in cases where there is a complaint that the local police department did not do what they should and there is a
Federal question, such as a civil rights question. As we can see, the State moved in, conducted an investigation, and found probable cause sufficient to issue an indictment. None of us know the facts that indictment was based on, or how much they are subject to interpretation. From that perspective, Holder's actions are perfectly reasonable.

matty, you are incoherent again. Your ability to spell and reason both seem to have disappeared. You lather about arresting Black Panthers on what is not a crime under the Constitution--making you appear not to be not merely the bigot we already know you to be, but an ignorant fool as well. Moved on do you say? No racism do you say? Last year there were more than 684,000 stop and frisks in New York city. Mostly black folks. No racial profiling? What was Zimmerman doing if not racially profiling. Do you actually know any black people? Have you ever listened to their perspective on the crime of driving black?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1364

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
we cannot under the Constitution, arrest someone whom we believe to be a threat before they have committed a crime.

If this is so, then explain way I have read many times about people that have threatened the President and have been arrested. Maybe the constitution doesn't apply to everyone?

swchandler said:
Quote:
It is pretty clear to me that you, mat-ty and isobars are all to eager to show your disdain and lack of respect for blacks in questionable ways.

Simply not true in my case. You, like other liberals always have the race card on the top of the deck and toss it out at every opportunity. My opinions are not based on any one's color. If it was the KKK threatening Holder, I would be saying the same thing.

When you KNOW that someone is a racist, then play your card, but just because there is a black person involved in some situation, don't assume that everyone in opposition is a racist. It's political beliefs that are the issue here, not skin color.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5476

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It seems that Holder IS involved in the case, so one wonders if the Department of Justice is also looking into the New Black Panther's bounty threat - NOT."



Well techno900, maybe you would like to clarify your above comment for me. It seems to me that you're suggesting that Holder somehow wouldn't take appropriate action against a black organization. Why is that? Because black folks stick together and protect their own kind? The racial overtones are quite apparent, even though they don't reflect the patent ugliness common in commentary from mat-ty or isobars. I'd say you have very little respect for Holder, and you clearly aren't trying to hide it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13312

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
just because there is a black person involved in some situation, don't assume that everyone in opposition is a racist.


They know better (they HAVE to, or they wouldn't be capable of earning enough money to afford a computer). Therefore it's just a diversionary tactic they use when they run out of facts.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1387

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
we cannot under the Constitution, arrest someone whom we believe to be a threat before they have committed a crime.

If this is so, then explain way I have read many times about people that have threatened the President and have been arrested. Maybe the constitution doesn't apply to everyone?


...because threatening the President actually IS a crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_President_of_the_United_States

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1364

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler,

You guys have got to have more than just playing the black card over and over.

My comment on Holder not pursuing the threats by the New Black Panthers is based on my believe that the administration wants to promote the racial conflict, not defuse it. Why can't everyone wait for the facts before making judgements about guilt or innocence.

I am fine with threats not being against the law, but the New Black Panthers didn't directly make threats, they just said that they would pay for someone to kill Zimmerman. Maybe it's different than hiring a hit man, but it's not far off. I guess the money has to come first.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5476

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, one more comment on this, and then I'll let it go. You seem to put me into this category of liberals that are ever ready to introduce the race card. I think that if you check the record, it's something I rarely use.

However, that said, I think that you'll find that the majority of my commentary on the Florida killing has not been inflammatory or focused on the extremes. In my view, the aggressive media and hype about the case has driven things far beyond the bounds that are usually warranted for a local murder case.

If you want to lay into anyone on this issue, I suggest that you target Reverend Al Sharpton for your disdain. He's the guy that pumped things up because he didn't feel that the Martin family was getting a fair shake. We have to remember that their son was killed. While I'm not thinking that the whole thing would have been brushed under the rug, you have to admit, it did take some time for the authorities to make a case against Zimmerman and arrest him. At the bottom line though, there are certain folks out there that wish Sharpton hadn't raised the focus on the event. They would have much preferred that the case be closed without Zimmerman being charged. We all know that in the distant past, that kind of thing happened all to often in southern states.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3627

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When 911 happened Bush missed the opportunity not to go to war, but simply close our borders and determine who was in our country.

Obama could have changed this country forever by telling America that racism (practically) was over. That the 3 reverends Jackson, Sharpton, and Louis Farrakan are all fools. That blacks should once again start businesses like they had in the 1920's and 30s. That welfare would be phased out, and in place, each American would have to make a contribution. Instead of all this wasted money in Iraq, Las Vegas, Prostitutes and clowns, we could cut the govt, and push small businesses by reducing red tape. Drill and mine for energy etcetera.

HE'D BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE.....but no, let's tax the millionaires a total of 4.7 billion a year against a deficit of $15 TRILLION???? He smoked way too much crack.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--you sure don't talk to people outside your zip code. Try reading an article by someone who is black, and has been stopped and frisked because of her skin color. Look at the multiple laws in Republican states, drafted by ALEC to suppress black voter turnout--and then tell me its a post-racial society. Try reading this by Melissa Harris-Perry:

Quote:
Trayvon Martin was not innocent. He was guilty of being black in presumably restricted public space. For decades, Jim Crow laws made this crime statutory. They codified the spaces into which black bodies could not pass without encountering legal punishment. They made public blackness a punishable offense. The 1964 Civil Rights Act removed the legal barriers but not the social sanctions and potentially violent consequences of this “crime.” George Zimmerman’s slaying of Trayvon Martin—and the subsequent campaign to smear Martin—is the latest and most jarring reminder that it is often impossible for a black body to be innocent.

Black communities in the United States spent much of late March expressing outrage about Zimmerman’s actions and the Sanford, Florida, police department’s inaction. But the anger and grief are not exclusively about this single act. They are prompted by the ways the case reveals the continuing subordination of full citizenship for black Americans.

This is not a straightforward issue of racial inequality, discussions of which are often reduced to an almost competitive empirical analysis of which Americans have the most problems. On those terms, there’s ample evidence that black Americans have consistently had fewer resources and opportunities. But this case is not about which race or group of people has the most problems. Right now people of all races have problems. With a decade of war, an unemployment rate still hovering at historic highs, stinging gas prices raising the cost of consumer goods and a housing market still on its knees, there are few families untouched in some material way by our national challenges. Even for those who have remained insulated from our collective difficulties, there are personal tragedies and loss.

Yes, everyone has problems. And, yes, government has a role in making citizens individually and collectively more resilient. Moreover, democratic governments have a duty to ensure that citizens bear the weight of these burdens more equally.

But the democratic social contract is not violated when citizens have problems; it is violated when some citizens are a problem. In The Souls of Black Folk, W.E.B. Du Bois described the experience of being black in America as a constant awareness that others viewed him as a problem. “Between me and the other world there is ever an unasked question…. How does it feel to be a problem?” This is not a statement about black people having more problems than their white counterparts. Du Bois captures the defining element of African-American life as the very self, but most especially the visible, black self in public space as being a problem.

Liberal democracy—based on commitment to individual liberty and dignity—does not exist if the government legislates against particular bodies in public spaces, as it did during Jim Crow, or when it is complicit in the violent policing of those bodies by other citizens, as in the Trayvon Martin slaying. For more than two years, vocal pockets of conservative activists and politicians demanded proof of President Obama’s citizenship—as if a black man was trespassing simply by being elected to the Oval Office. As the president was being asked to show his papers to the nation, state governments in Arizona, Alabama and South Carolina empowered police officers, school officials and merchants to demand proof of citizenship from anyone they deemed suspicious of immigration violations—suspicions that are triggered primarily by racial, ethnic and linguistic profiling. Despite the dramatic legal changes brought about by the ending of Jim Crow, it is once again socially, politically and legally acceptable to presume the guilt of nonwhite bodies.
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