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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| feuser wrote: | | Well, how then DO you allow for conditions that are clearly outside your own realm of experience? Clearly you haven't thought this through. Saying "well, if it works for me it should damn well work for everyone" is pretty close to a text book example of prejudice. |
It seems I gave you too much credit. I didn't say that did I? I said that many people (hundreds of thousands a year) go through a great deal of effort to obtain the right to vote. The relatively minor task of obtaining some form of government ID doesn't seem too much to ask of others for that same privilege.
| feuser wrote: | | Nope. Why don't you just show me where I am wrong? |
Since one of the four swearing in ceremonies was the one at which I became a citizen, as I clearly stated, most sensible people would regard that as MY experience, contrary to your comment.
| feuser wrote: | | I've obviously had more exposure while helping people who were virtually helpless in a system that works just fine for me and you. |
And your basis for that assumption is? |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need a term to describe those who wage partisan war under the pretext of avoiding electoral fraud. They do say it is harder to give up rationalization for a week than sex, these postings are pretty good evidence of that. Now in the 1960's we had Freedom Fighters, who braved billy clubs, bombings, shooting, beating, fire hoses and jail to fight for the right to vote.
Now we have those who want to slam the door on the right to vote, wherever they can, if it helps their electoral possibilities. Freedom unriders? Unfreedom riders? And for a slogan--Selma wasn't so bad? Are they risking higher taxes? My god, they must be so proud. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | feuser wrote: | | Well, how then DO you allow for conditions that are clearly outside your own realm of experience? Clearly you haven't thought this through. Saying "well, if it works for me it should damn well work for everyone" is pretty close to a text book example of prejudice. |
It seems I gave you too much credit. I didn't say that did I? I said that many people (hundreds of thousands a year) go through a great deal of effort to obtain the right to vote. The relatively minor task of obtaining some form of government ID doesn't seem too much to ask of others for that same privilege. |
No, you said that you're concluding from YOUR OWN experience that the burden is not too much to bear. I am saying you can't possibly know that.
| mrgybe wrote: | | feuser wrote: | | Nope. Why don't you just show me where I am wrong? |
Since one of the four swearing in ceremonies was the one at which I became a citizen, as I clearly stated, most sensible people would regard that as MY experience, contrary to your comment.
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So you're listing your observations (being in the same room as others, perhaps of lesser means) as your experience? You cannot possibly think that the smooth sailing through the immigration process afforded to you by immigration lawyers (i.e. money) etc. is a good representation of everyone's experience?
| mrgybe wrote: | | feuser wrote: | | I've obviously had more exposure while helping people who were virtually helpless in a system that works just fine for me and you. |
And your basis for that assumption is? |
Your conclusions.
It seems that the closer you are removed from reality, the easier it becomes to judge the decisions and actions of other people.
Not unlike Isobars, who apparently thinks its reasonable for (E.g.) a laid-off school teacher from New York City to move to North Dakota to start a career in the oil industry...
http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167365&highlight=north+dakota#167365
Mrgybe, I do not enjoy knocking you personally, but I have spent two years helping lonely, older people without means doing the most basic things. This has taught me lessons that I hope I never forget and that make it virtually incomprehensible how privileged individuals like ourselves could pass judgement on the lives of others.
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florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| feuser wrote: | | So you're listing your observations (being in the same room as others, perhaps of lesser means) as your experience? You cannot possibly think that the smooth sailing through the immigration process afforded to you by immigration lawyers (i.e. money) etc. is a good representation of everyone's experience? |
Sanctimonious bollocks from someone who knows nothing about my circumstances. My family and I had ZERO help from the company. It was our decision to pursue citizenship made immediately after 9-11. There was absolutely no benefit to the company for me to do that and they, correctly, provided no help of any kind. I filled out and mailed all the forms, provided all the needed documentation, appeared numerous times at the INS and waited for two frustrating years for the finishing line. We had no help of any kind from legal counsel. My son was declined at the final interview and had to wait an additional year to become a citizen. You accuse me of prejudice when it is you who is clearly exhibiting it. I deserve an apology, but don't expect one.
| feuser wrote: | | Mr Ggybe, I do not enjoy knocking you personally, but I have spent two years helping lonely, older people without means doing the most basic things. This has taught me lessons that I hope I never forget and that make it virtually incomprehensible how privileged individuals like ourselves could pass judgement on the lives of others. |
Unlike you, and others on this forum, I refuse to trumpet my philanthropic efforts. I assure you I am routinely made aware of my good fortune by personal interactions with those less fortunate.........but I'm sure that statement will elicit a sneer from you and your judgmental ilk. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | feuser wrote: | | So you're listing your observations (being in the same room as others, perhaps of lesser means) as your experience? You cannot possibly think that the smooth sailing through the immigration process afforded to you by immigration lawyers (i.e. money) etc. is a good representation of everyone's experience? |
Sanctimonious bollocks from someone who knows nothing about my circumstances. My family and I had ZERO help from the company. It was our decision to pursue citizenship made immediately after 9-11. There was absolutely no benefit to the company for me to do that and they, correctly, provided no help of any kind. I filled out and mailed all the forms, provided all the needed documentation, appeared numerous times at the INS and waited for two frustrating years for the finishing line. We had no help of any kind from legal counsel. My son was declined at the final interview and had to wait an additional year to become a citizen. You accuse me of prejudice when it is you who is clearly exhibiting it. I deserve an apology, but don't expect one.
| feuser wrote: | | Mr Ggybe, I do not enjoy knocking you personally, but I have spent two years helping lonely, older people without means doing the most basic things. This has taught me lessons that I hope I never forget and that make it virtually incomprehensible how privileged individuals like ourselves could pass judgement on the lives of others. |
Unlike you, and others on this forum, I refuse to trumpet my philanthropic efforts. I assure you I am routinely made aware of my good fortune by personal interactions with those less fortunate.........but I'm sure that statement will elicit a sneer from you and your judgmental ilk. |
Well, then bloody act like it. I don't know about my ilk, but I do.
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florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Wild and inaccurate accusations............then he doubles down. A more gracious route would have been to apologize. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | Wild and inaccurate accusations............then he doubles down. A more gracious route would have been to apologize. |
Yes, you have my apology - I was wrong. In all honesty, your opinions about the less fortunate caused me to believe that you were simply ignorant of reality. Now, I am truly baffled.
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florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | feuser wrote: | | Mr Ggybe, I do not enjoy knocking you personally, but I have spent two years helping lonely, older people without means doing the most basic things. This has taught me lessons that I hope I never forget and that make it virtually incomprehensible how privileged individuals like ourselves could pass judgement on the lives of others. |
Unlike you, and others on this forum, I refuse to trumpet my philanthropic efforts. I assure you I am routinely made aware of my good fortune by personal interactions with those less fortunate.........but I'm sure that statement will elicit a sneer from you and your judgmental ilk. |
Oh, I didn't expect your approval of my efforts. I just thought I'd tell you about my personal experiences. You know, like those that guide you well.
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florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Selling windsurfing sails is one version of reality............spending years in Africa amidst the most abject poverty and despair is another. I bow to your superior knowledge. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | Selling windsurfing sails is one version of reality............spending years in Africa amidst the most abject poverty and despair is another. I bow to your superior knowledge. |
I am not selling windsurfing sails. Thanks, though.
PS: I thought you weren't participating in the philantropy contest?
PPS: Wait, I AM selling windsurfing sails now. One to be exact... 8.5m race sail, anyone?
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florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
Last edited by feuser on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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