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What to do about drugs and druggies
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5468

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:56 pm    Post subject: What to do about drugs and druggies Reply with quote

I'll introduce a new topic with a thoughtful article in the New Yorker. It might be possible to exchange a few ideas--at least until the neanderthals weigh in with a hijack.

It seems clear to me that California will legalize, or decriminalize, marijuana within the next decade. I have decidedly mixed feelings about this event, and was really stricken by Michael Specter's article in the New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/10/17/111017fa_fact_specter

Specter goes through the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal, and presents both sides pretty fairly. He repeats a key fact that I discovered about ten years ago--that illegal drugs now rival oil and arms in economic significance. His source is the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, and he calls the drug business a $400 billion dollar a year industry. Now I believe that oil, a legal substance, has corrupted government at many levels. How much more so has drugs? It is possible to buy drugs in any prison in this country, and that is only possible with the cooperation--and corruption--of the guards.

I don't know that de-criminalization wouldn't lead to an increase in use, or it could be regulated effectively in anti-government America. Under age kids currently obtain and abuse cigarettes, alcohol, and subscription drugs. An interesting article, check it out.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4309

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about drug testing welfare recipients?

If we were a libertarian nation, and drugs were legal, the problem would solve itself. However legalization now would just speed up our decline.

Clearly doctors should be monitored more carefully. Michael Jackson is a case in point.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
How about drug testing welfare recipients?

If we were a libertarian nation, and drugs were legal, the problem would solve itself. However legalization now would just speed up our decline.

Clearly doctors should be monitored more carefully. Michael Jackson is a case in point.

Monitored by some gov agency?

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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many highschool athletic programs drug test.

Paid for by welfare recipients, privately and randomly monitored.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well mac, I guess you have to be a subscriber to the New Yorker to read Specter's article. As a result, my exposure is limited to the abstract presented.

Regarding marijuana, I believe that it will ultimately be legalized in California. The big question though is whether the federal government will allow it. I think that it should, as a continuing effort to criminalize its use and punishing folks makes no sense at all. I guess when you come down to it, this is an area where I firmly believe that there should be limits on the government's power and its oppression over individuals. Prohibition didn't work, and the continued criminalization of marijuana is not going to work.

I have to wonder though whether Bard feels the same about ending punitive government regulations relative to this topic. From his past commentary on this forum, I would think not. If that's the case, it would be a bit ironic don't you think?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14461

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drug tests would be paid for many times over with the welfare, medicaid, medicare, unemployment, and Obamacare expenses they would save. IMO, you do drugs, and the taxpayers' obligation to you drops to some bare bones minimum, maybe even behind that of stray dogs, who never chose their lot.

And in response to the idiots who say I'm lucky drugs never messed me up, there's no luck involved. I've never as much as inhaled a cigarette, let alone touched any illegal substances. I respect myself too much for that and have the brains to realize their threat, especially having lost my GD dad to alcohol and my dear mom to chain smoking.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have we been unplonked or is iso peeking?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4309

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record SW, I am against the death penalty unless the prosecutor is willing to put his life on the line if he were wrong.

As for drugs, I feel that community service, drug rehab, or peeling potatos for the army would be sufficient. If the guy is holding down a job, then drug rehab only. I do not think that jail time is warranted for anything but crack and heroin dealers. (not users)
Long term use of Marijuana has very significant effects on health and psyche. Scizophrenia and lung cancer are 2 possible outcomes. As you all know, medical marijuana is a joke. You can get a prescription with an ingrown toenail for $79. It makes you immune to prosecution.

If they can give Maddoff life in prison, they should give a major importer of heroine 20 years. How many desperate mothers have lost their kids to drugs?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Long term use of Marijuana has very significant effects on health and psyche. Scizophrenia and lung cancer are 2 possible outcomes."

Oh really? Why don't you share a bit more with us. I'd love to hear all about the recognized medical results that support your conclusions.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5468

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I expected, neanderthal Bard was the first to try to hijack discussion, and then posted nonsense about mental illness. He's not yet back from "make it up" land, I guess he alters reality by listening to talk radio and reading Ann Coulter.

No doubt that drugs, even marijuana, have significant health and societal effects. With our current war on drugs, and associated cost, we're interdicting about 10%, and illicit drugs fund massive corruption around the world. Is there a better way?
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